View Poll Results: Who was at fault
Subaru for tailgating
16
24.24%
Honda for brake checking
17
25.76%
Both of them
33
50.00%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll
don't tailgate....
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Most jurisdiction's highway traffic acts would agree that safe flow of traffic trumps posted speed limits. That works both ways, faster or slower than the posted limit. Both drivers were in the wrong, but not because of how much faster they were going over and above the speed limit. One for Impeding safe flow of traffic and dangerous driving and the other for following too close and dangerous driving.
There is nothing unsafe about driving the posted limits (or relatively close to them)....and police and/or speed-cameras usually will not nab you unless you are going around 10 MPH or more over the limit. That is to take into account things like inherent speedometer error, speedometer error caused by aftermarket-sized wheels/tires, and the effect of gravity coming down hills. One must remember that posted limits are usually (but not always) set by traffic engineers after a careful study of the road's physical characteristics, potential for danger, and average traffic-volume.
Here in Ontario and all other Canadian provinces, if a major injury or death occurs due to dangerous driving, it can be grounds for criminal charges.
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-02-16 at 12:13 PM.
#32
I have another question, why would you drive wrecklessly/like a douche in that Subaru with a dash cam??? I mean if you are incapable of following the law, you probably shouldn't have a dash cam that incriminates you. There are several levels of stupidity at play here, on the part of both drivers.
#33
I have another question, why would you drive wrecklessly/like a douche in that Subaru with a dash cam??? I mean if you are incapable of following the law, you probably shouldn't have a dash cam that incriminates you. There are several levels of stupidity at play here, on the part of both drivers.
#34
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
I don't agree that it is "impeding" the "safe" flow of traffic. Safety is not necessarily determined by how many scofflaws can whiz along in the left lane (or in any other lane, for that matter) without getting a speeding ticket.
There is nothing unsafe about driving the posted limits (or relatively close to them)....and police and/or speed-cameras usually will not nab you unless you are going around 10 MPH or more over the limit. That is to take into account things like inherent speedometer error, speedometer error caused by aftermarket-sized wheels/tires, and the effect of gravity coming down hills. One must remember that posted limits are usually (but not always) set by traffic engineers after a careful study of the road's physical characteristics, potential for danger, and average traffic-volume.
There is nothing unsafe about driving the posted limits (or relatively close to them)....and police and/or speed-cameras usually will not nab you unless you are going around 10 MPH or more over the limit. That is to take into account things like inherent speedometer error, speedometer error caused by aftermarket-sized wheels/tires, and the effect of gravity coming down hills. One must remember that posted limits are usually (but not always) set by traffic engineers after a careful study of the road's physical characteristics, potential for danger, and average traffic-volume.
#35
There was nothing particularly douchey about the Subaru's driving style which can only be described as "With purpose" judging by the pre-incident snippet.
They did however commit three mistakes:
a) Attempting to pass on the right (in front of the pickup the Pilot passed), Which the Pilot driver "wasn't having" by brake checking aggressively and immediately accelerating to get back to speed.
b) Attempting to pass on the right a second time after the Pilot made their intent to disallow this action clear, which the Pilot driver responded to childishly by abruptly and aggressively brake checking a second time.
c) Not staying in their lane and subsequently losing control due to abrupt and likely distressed directional change at the onset of the second brake check.
The liability would likely be shared as far as insurance goes depending on the state, but i can think of several offenses i'd cite the Pilot driver for, some of which would result in a suspended Driver License.
They did however commit three mistakes:
a) Attempting to pass on the right (in front of the pickup the Pilot passed), Which the Pilot driver "wasn't having" by brake checking aggressively and immediately accelerating to get back to speed.
b) Attempting to pass on the right a second time after the Pilot made their intent to disallow this action clear, which the Pilot driver responded to childishly by abruptly and aggressively brake checking a second time.
c) Not staying in their lane and subsequently losing control due to abrupt and likely distressed directional change at the onset of the second brake check.
The liability would likely be shared as far as insurance goes depending on the state, but i can think of several offenses i'd cite the Pilot driver for, some of which would result in a suspended Driver License.
Last edited by litesoarer; 06-02-16 at 04:24 PM.
#36
There was nothing particularly douchey about the Subaru's driving style which can only be described as "With purpose" judging by the pre-incident snippet.
They did however commit three mistakes:
a) Attempting to pass on the right (in front of the pickup the Pilot passed), Which the Pilot driver "wasn't having" by brake checking aggressively and immediately accelerating to get back to speed.
b) Attempting to pass on the right a second time after the Pilot made their intent to disallow this action clear, which the Pilot driver responded to childishly by abruptly and aggressively brake checking a second time.
c) Not staying in their lane and subsequently losing control due to abrupt and likely distressed directional change at the onset of the second brake check.
The liability would likely be shared as far as insurance goes depending on the state, but i can think of several offenses i'd cite the Pilot driver for, some of which would result in a suspended Driver License.
They did however commit three mistakes:
a) Attempting to pass on the right (in front of the pickup the Pilot passed), Which the Pilot driver "wasn't having" by brake checking aggressively and immediately accelerating to get back to speed.
b) Attempting to pass on the right a second time after the Pilot made their intent to disallow this action clear, which the Pilot driver responded to childishly by abruptly and aggressively brake checking a second time.
c) Not staying in their lane and subsequently losing control due to abrupt and likely distressed directional change at the onset of the second brake check.
The liability would likely be shared as far as insurance goes depending on the state, but i can think of several offenses i'd cite the Pilot driver for, some of which would result in a suspended Driver License.
Here is a screen shot just as the pilot brake checks the second time. Look at the distance. The Subaru is also still accelerating closing the gap.
Last edited by Coleroad; 06-02-16 at 04:46 PM.
#37
Provoked, or not, The Honda Pilot's driver knowingly and willingly created an unsafe condition not once, but twice in an increasingly aggressive manner.
This trumps the Subaru driver's careless approach and mishandling in this incident.
This trumps the Subaru driver's careless approach and mishandling in this incident.
#39
Lexus Fanatic
I have another question, why would you drive wrecklessly/like a douche in that Subaru with a dash cam??? I mean if you are incapable of following the law, you probably shouldn't have a dash cam that incriminates you. There are several levels of stupidity at play here, on the part of both drivers.
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-02-16 at 04:55 PM.
#40
They are both idiots. Both knowingly and willingly create an unsafe situation twice.Both were aggressive in this case.
#41
I'm not arguing that the Subaru had no dog in this fight, in fact, I highlighted the fact they were attempting to pass on the right. They should have hung back after the Honda shut them down the first time rather than go back for seconds.
The Honda still holds top spot as the aggressor, however.
#42
I'm guessing (but can't prove) that the guy in the Legacy he was also driving on another level of stupidity....probably with bad or badly-worn tires. Subaru AWD systems have a reputation for excellent traction, and, to get the rear end to slide out like that, especially on a dry paved surface, you've really got to either really yank the emergency brake hard while cross-steering (like the WRX/STi and Mitsubishi Evo guys do on soft-surface rallying), or you have to have really bad-condition tires that aren't gripping at all. My strong guess is bad tires.
#43
Lexus Fanatic
My guess is no amount of AWD/stability control or whatever was going to save his butt. Looks like he darted right really quick, upset the balance of the car and way overcorrected to the left. If he was on the brake while doing this maneuver, it would put all the weight on the front nose of the car, leaving the back end light to where it would want to slide around on him. Whatever he did in that initial quick dart to the right upset the balance of the car and he way over corrected. If he were in an SUV I think he would've rolled it before even hitting the guard rail.
#44
Lead Lap
iTrader: (3)
The pilot driver caused an accident, and he should be held responsible. What he did was illegal, there was clearly no reason for him to hard brake like that. Was the Subi tailgaiting, not really. The rear tires of the car in front were fully visible, which means that the distance was semi safe, semi because of the speed. Subi did not endanger the lives of the occupants in the pilot, the pilot driver on the other hand did , and did it purposely. The guy is an a**hole.
#45
The pilot driver caused an accident, and he should be held responsible. What he did was illegal, there was clearly no reason for him to hard brake like that. Was the Subi tailgaiting, not really. The rear tires of the car in front were fully visible, which means that the distance was semi safe, semi because of the speed. Subi did not endanger the lives of the occupants in the pilot, the pilot driver on the other hand did , and did it purposely. The guy is an a**hole.