situman

Nobody can defy physics. More power will always equal to more fuel being used. Hybrids changes that equation somewhat. The only real benefit is the ability to use smaller engines that requires less fuel while stuck in traffic or idling. If you need to go in a hurry, it will burn fuel. My GS350 does not feel underpowered, just not as fast as the competition. Honestly, with the speed limits at 55 in NY and 65 in most of the US...the heck I need 400+ hp for?

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I recall reading that same article and I agree that it is interesting, redspencer

Nissan's VR38 engine block has proven to be very strong with its cast aluminum alloy design. Toyota has previously stated that their mission with the new Supra would not be to chase the GTR (in raw performance numbers or AWD) but I hope the extra care going in to developing this 3.0L V6 twin turbo + hybrid means they are also taking toughness, durability and ultimate potential seriously in their own right. The Lexus models that also get variants of it will only greatly benefit as they did in the 1990's (in Japan anyway).

Sulu

The reason turbos are being pushed is because a turbo is a well-known technology that is relatively easy (read cheap) to implement, much easier (and much cheaper) than Toyota's hybrid drive technology, and (backed up by outrageous government fuel economy claims) able to kill 2 birds: offer extra power AND fuel economy.

Who does not want to have their cake and eat it too?

Toyota and Lexus engines may not provide outstanding performance but they provide an excellent balance of performance, efficiency and refinement.

We should also realise that the 2.0T offers air-to-liquid intercooling, when its (current) power output only suggests the need for air-to-air intercooling. That is likely growth that was built into this engine.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

again if turbo was this superior, why wasnt every car turboed long ago they arent a new invention. The primary advantage of turbos is volumetric efficiency and power density, not fuel efficiency. It can be fuel efficient if you drive it like Miss Daisy and stay off boost. Otherwise it consumes a lot of fuel while on boost. Lets not even get started on reliability. A turbo engine will always be less reliable than a comparable NA. The driving experience is very different as well. You think Ferrari Porsche would go to turbo (now every 911 is turbo) absent these lowsy govt regs? They are forced too despite what they truly want to build. Turbos are not the silver bullet, they have issues of their own. Turbos are good at gaming the govt test bench during mileage testing. Real world mpg is often a disappointment. This turbo trend is nothing more than govt intervention and car makers having to build cars they and the consumers didnt ask for.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...turbocharging/

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/17/a...-fuel-economy/

Toys4RJill

Cost is the reason. A turbo engine will cost more to produce . Sulu was incorrect when he said that it was cheap.

Sulu

I did not say that turbocharging is superior, merely that it is an easy way to boost power AND fuel economy; it is easier (and thus cheaper) to turbocharge than to produce a hybrid system.

The reason that we have not had turbochargers in great numbers to now is because we have not needed them. A turbo is still something you add to an engine (but something relatively easy to add, especially compared to a hybrid drivetrain) so it is more difficult -- and more expensive -- than a naturally-aspirated engine.

Rhambler

This is good thread to bump as the rumors proved true, although the displacement was wrong, unless of course Toyota is also developing a 3.0 Liter TT.

Most of the early rumors suggested this engine would also find its way into the GS, so unless Toyota was being disingenuous about saying the 3.5 L was developed specifically for the LS, it could very well find its way into the GS.

Will Toyota detune this engine for the GS? I think that would be a mistake, but at the same time it would diminish the value of the LS, again assuming the 3.5 L is the only V6 TT Toyota is developing.

What benefit would it have developing a 3 liter TT now that it has the 3.5? Just seems too similar so the next GS may very well have the same engine. Even if detuned, I'm sure nothing more than a laptop could unlock the LS level lol.

plex

iTrader: (11)

I could see them detuning it but Toyota ECU's have always been locked down the most when compared to others like Nissan and Honda. There are 1XXXHP GTR's with flashed stock ECU's that are tuneable. Who knows what they will do but yea simply changing downpipes and turning up the boost can yield gains pretty quick on a factory turbo engine. I'm just glad Toyota is back in the 6 cyl turbo game.

situman

Simple, just remove a turbo. Remap the ECU and done.

plex

iTrader: (11)

It's not that simple to remove a turbo that's part of Twin Turbo setup on a V motor. What do you do with that side of the motor with the turbo gone? Detuned can just limit the max boost keeping both turbos but that can simply be bypassed with aftermarket options.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

let me know how that works out.

pbm317

If this is the case, then why do people still buy BMW 328i (now 330i) when the 320i exists?

peteharvey

The smaller the displacement, the lower the reciprocating mass, and the more smoothly the engine spins.
A 3.0 V6 TT will be both more economical and smoother than a 3.5 V6 TT, but the latter will have more power and torque.
The 3.0 V6 TT can be lighter if it is made from its own block.

However, if they did make a 3.0 V6 TT for the GS, then commonsense would say that they would make a 2.5 V6 TT for the IS; this would be great if it were true.

Having three different V6 capacities would also prevent devaluing the more expensive models.

Many decades ago, Toyota had their in-line and V6's in many different capacities like 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, 3.5 and even 4.0 for some of their commercial vehicles.
However, right now, I just don't see TMC making too many different variations in capacities.
I haven't even heard of TMC move into 1.5 and 2.5L four cylinder turbos like the Honda Civic and Mazda CX-9.

RNM GS3

Toyota / Lexus is late to the party by about 5 years.

They should of built an Inline 6 TT for the RWD platform cars.
Much smoother than a V6 will be.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

My bad if this has already been pointed out, but I also think that this 3.5TT engine will also make it's way to the 4GS, however detuned. This is the what happened with the 3GS. Although the 3GS started off with the 4.3L V8, it eventually got the 4.6L V8 in the LS460, aka the rare GS460, but with less HP and torque if you compare the GS460 vs LS460.