MM Static-Review: 2017 Lincoln MKZ Facelift
#16
Never liked this car but the updates show that Ford has become more serious about Lincoln. It's better outside and the interior looks world's better, looks like the material quality has been upgraded and little touches like the leather pattern on the seats and doors and dark matte wood add a lot.
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Check the Reserve and Black Label versions out for yourself, compare them to the lower-line 40-50K versions, and, though I could be wrong, I think you will end up agreeing with me and Jill.
Well, yes it does, now, with the big spindle-grille.
Not only hard, but thin as well...as are the doors.
Yeah.....IMO, that's a major marketing error on Lexus' part, especially in bad-weather areas. Several of its competitors do offer an AWD option. Perhaps the ES, though, sells in such big numbers that the Lexus marketers feel they can get by without the AWD.
the ES is successful because it's very low key - doesn't say look at me,
and as you say, rock solid reliable. but it does not to me have a 'more sophisticated interior' - a lot of the plastic is rock hard.
the ES can't be had in AWD in the u.s. at least, and while still a nice vehicle, it's now pretty old.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 09-03-16 at 06:40 PM.
#18
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
#19
Lexus Fanatic
So does the E class compete with the ES? The GS is priced lower because the brand image is not on the exact same level as Mercedes-Benz.
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Check the Reserve and Black Label versions out for yourself, compare them to the lower-line 40-50K versions, and, though I could be wrong, I think you will end up agreeing with me and Jill.
Well, yes it does, now, with the big spindle-grille.
Well, yes it does, now, with the big spindle-grille.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
and as you say, rock solid reliable. but it does not to me have a 'more sophisticated interior' - a lot of the plastic is rock hard.
Yeah.....IMO, that's a major marketing error on Lexus' part, especially in bad-weather areas. Several of its competitors do offer an AWD option. Perhaps the ES, though, sells in such big numbers that the Lexus marketers feel they can get by without the AWD.[/QUOTE]
I am not sure if the lack of AWD for the ES is a huge issue for Lexus. Buick claims just 10 percent of buyers are going for the LaCrosse in AWD, I would also assume that it's about the same take rate for the MKZ. I think Lexus wants people to opt for a RX if AWD is a must.
Toyota does some very, very strange things with their lineup, Tacoma and Tundra have no auto 4WD while 4Runner has the option of part time or full time while Sequoia has multi mode and the Lexus has just full time.
All of the Lexus cars that feature AWD are Torsen diff based.
It's a strange thing that Lexus does, but a FWD is already better in snow than a AWD and Toyota is profit oriented so perhaps that is their reasoning.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 09-03-16 at 06:40 PM.
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Yeah.....IMO, that's a major marketing error on Lexus' part, especially in bad-weather areas. Several of its competitors do offer an AWD option. Perhaps the ES, though, sells in such big numbers that the Lexus marketers feel they can get by without the AWD.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I am not sure if the lack of AWD for the ES is a huge issue for Lexus. Buick claims just 10 percent of buyers are going for the LaCrosse in AWD, I would also assume that it's about the same take rate for the MKZ. I think Lexus wants people to opt for a RX if AWD is a must.
Toyota does some very, very strange things with their lineup, Tacoma and Tundra have no auto 4WD while 4Runner has the option of part time or full time while Sequoia has multi mode and the Lexus has just full time.
All of the Lexus cars that feature AWD are Torsen diff based.
It's a strange thing that Lexus does, but a FWD is already better in snow than a AWD and Toyota is profit oriented so perhaps that is their reasoning.
Toyota does some very, very strange things with their lineup, Tacoma and Tundra have no auto 4WD while 4Runner has the option of part time or full time while Sequoia has multi mode and the Lexus has just full time.
All of the Lexus cars that feature AWD are Torsen diff based.
It's a strange thing that Lexus does, but a FWD is already better in snow than a AWD and Toyota is profit oriented so perhaps that is their reasoning.
On the various types of AWD systems, some of what you listed isn't all that strange. Pickup trucks were notoriously slow to move away from part-time 4WD (non-center-differential) and adopt the more sophisticated, automatic systems (some trucks, as you note, have yet to do so). Those who spend a significant amount of time off-road, or on paved but slippery surfaces, like the part-time system, because, even though it is less flexible and demands more action and cars from the driver, it is simpler, potentially reliable, and has fewer components to fail. that's probably the reason why the 4Runner offers both systems. At one time, the Nissan Pathfinder also did....before that option was offered on the Pathfinder, you had to move up to the similar but more complex Infiniti QX4 to get the automatic AWD.
On the Lacrosse, BTW, the car itself sells pretty well....and it is quite popular with seniors. So, if only 10% of them get AWD, that's still, if not a huge, at least a respectable number. I suspect it would be about the same with the ES if it were offered.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-03-16 at 02:14 PM.
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Those who spend a significant amount of time off-road, or on paved but slippery surfaces, like the part-time system, because, even though it is less flexible and demands more action and cars from the driver, it is simpler, potentially reliable, and has fewer components to fail. that's probably the reason why the 4Runner offers both systems. .
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 09-03-16 at 02:57 PM.
#23
Lexus Fanatic
Fully economy and perception of good fuel economy is likely the driving factor for the lack of AWD in the ES. The Lincoln AWD models are not better than 28mpg on the highway. I think the Lacrosse AWD model is just as poor despite being fully updated for 2017
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Cost is the reason Toyota does not offer auto 4wd. If your off-road theory is correct, the Land Cruiser and LX570 would have part-time 4WD if it were so important. Remember, Toyota is well know for their trucks and SUVs lasting a very long time. But Toyota is also obsessed with costs.
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Anyhow, back on topic, does anybody on Car Chat own or lease an MKZ? Let's hear some of your thoughts....on both the pre and post-facelife versions.
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Hard to go wrong with a Fusion. I think the Fusion was actually better-done than the pre-facelift MKZ, though, with the facelift and latest revisions, the MKZ may have caught up.
#29
The big difference between the Fusion Sport and the MKZ with the turbo is that the Fusion is a single model. The Fusion Platinum trim is not available with the 2.7 turbo engine. Any version of the MKZ can be had with the 3.0 turbo engine. If you select AWD, it is 400 hp and 400 lb/ft of torque.
#30
Lexus Champion
The big difference between the Fusion Sport and the MKZ with the turbo is that the Fusion is a single model. The Fusion Platinum trim is not available with the 2.7 turbo engine. Any version of the MKZ can be had with the 3.0 turbo engine. If you select AWD, it is 400 hp and 400 lb/ft of torque.