BrownPride

Never liked this car but the updates show that Ford has become more serious about Lincoln. It's better outside and the interior looks world's better, looks like the material quality has been upgraded and little touches like the leather pattern on the seats and doors and dark matte wood add a lot.

mmarshall

Check the Reserve and Black Label versions out for yourself, compare them to the lower-line 40-50K versions, and, though I could be wrong, I think you will end up agreeing with me and Jill.



Well, yes it does, now, with the big spindle-grille.


Not only hard, but thin as well...as are the doors.


Yeah.....IMO, that's a major marketing error on Lexus' part, especially in bad-weather areas. Several of its competitors do offer an AWD option. Perhaps the ES, though, sells in such big numbers that the Lexus marketers feel they can get by without the AWD.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

irrelevant where they're made and starting price isn't relevant. new e-class starts at $52K (same 7K diff as you mentioned) so does that mean the GS doesn't compete with it?

Toys4RJill

So does the E class compete with the ES? The GS is priced lower because the brand image is not on the exact same level as Mercedes-Benz.

Toys4RJill

Not only hard, but thin as well...as are the doors.




Yeah.....IMO, that's a major marketing error on Lexus' part, especially in bad-weather areas. Several of its competitors do offer an AWD option. Perhaps the ES, though, sells in such big numbers that the Lexus marketers feel they can get by without the AWD.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure if the lack of AWD for the ES is a huge issue for Lexus. Buick claims just 10 percent of buyers are going for the LaCrosse in AWD, I would also assume that it's about the same take rate for the MKZ. I think Lexus wants people to opt for a RX if AWD is a must.

Toyota does some very, very strange things with their lineup, Tacoma and Tundra have no auto 4WD while 4Runner has the option of part time or full time while Sequoia has multi mode and the Lexus has just full time.

All of the Lexus cars that feature AWD are Torsen diff based.

It's a strange thing that Lexus does, but a FWD is already better in snow than a AWD and Toyota is profit oriented so perhaps that is their reasoning.

mmarshall

I corrected the previous quote brackets, Jill......you had them misquoted.

On the various types of AWD systems, some of what you listed isn't all that strange. Pickup trucks were notoriously slow to move away from part-time 4WD (non-center-differential) and adopt the more sophisticated, automatic systems (some trucks, as you note, have yet to do so). Those who spend a significant amount of time off-road, or on paved but slippery surfaces, like the part-time system, because, even though it is less flexible and demands more action and cars from the driver, it is simpler, potentially reliable, and has fewer components to fail. that's probably the reason why the 4Runner offers both systems. At one time, the Nissan Pathfinder also did....before that option was offered on the Pathfinder, you had to move up to the similar but more complex Infiniti QX4 to get the automatic AWD.

On the Lacrosse, BTW, the car itself sells pretty well....and it is quite popular with seniors. So, if only 10% of them get AWD, that's still, if not a huge, at least a respectable number. I suspect it would be about the same with the ES if it were offered.

Toys4RJill

Cost is the reason Toyota does not offer auto 4wd. If your off-road theory is correct, the Land Cruiser and LX570 would have part-time 4WD if it were so important. Remember, Toyota is well know for their trucks and SUVs lasting a very long time. But Toyota is also obsessed with costs.

Toys4RJill

Fully economy and perception of good fuel economy is likely the driving factor for the lack of AWD in the ES. The Lincoln AWD models are not better than 28mpg on the highway. I think the Lacrosse AWD model is just as poor despite being fully updated for 2017

mmarshall

Oh yes, that's true. I didn't think I needed to mention that....that's pretty much a given. Vehicles without center differentials obviously cost less to produce than those with them. But my off-road statements are also correct. The LC and LX have multi-adjustable 4WD/AWD systems because they are 90K vehicles.......ditto for the Range Rover, Mercedes Gelandewagen, and some other high-zoot off-roaders. Cost is indeed part of the reason. But so is durability. A part-time system has fewer mechanical and electronic parts to break down (no center differential, simpler transfer-case, fewer U-joints, etc.....)...and when you are out in the rough, climbing over rocks and across creek beds, an automatic system with its center-differential slip isn't needed....you want max torque and power to all four wheels, all of the time.

mmarshall

Anyhow, back on topic, does anybody on Car Chat own or lease an MKZ? Let's hear some of your thoughts....on both the pre and post-facelife versions.

tex2670

Like most other Lincoln products, personally, I'd go for the loaded Ford version--the new Fusion Sport with the 2.7 EcoBoost V6.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Imagine the possibilities when Tuners get their hands on it

mmarshall

Hard to go wrong with a Fusion. I think the Fusion was actually better-done than the pre-facelift MKZ, though, with the facelift and latest revisions, the MKZ may have caught up.

oldcajun

The big difference between the Fusion Sport and the MKZ with the turbo is that the Fusion is a single model. The Fusion Platinum trim is not available with the 2.7 turbo engine. Any version of the MKZ can be had with the 3.0 turbo engine. If you select AWD, it is 400 hp and 400 lb/ft of torque.

tex2670

The problem for me is that I find the MKZ styling hideous. In my suburban area, I can't really take advantage of 400 hp, so getting that HP isn't really a sufficient trade off for having to drive around in a car that looks like that.