Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

MM Static-Review: 2017 Lincoln MKZ Facelift

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-06-16, 11:19 AM
  #46  
LexBob2
Lexus Champion
 
LexBob2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 11,125
Received 138 Likes on 112 Posts
Default

It's not unusual for manufacturers to hold back on some things as an incentive to upgrade to a higher trim level. When the last gen ES350 was launched it was rated at something like 4hp higher on premium vs. all of the Toyota models with the same engine on regular. It could be what Ford/Lincoln is doing although the 400 ft. lb. seems like an awful lot for FWD.
LexBob2 is offline  
Old 09-06-16, 03:24 PM
  #47  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 91,077
Received 87 Likes on 86 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexBob2
It's not unusual for manufacturers to hold back on some things as an incentive to upgrade to a higher trim level. When the last gen ES350 was launched it was rated at something like 4hp higher on premium vs. all of the Toyota models with the same engine on regular. It could be what Ford/Lincoln is doing although the 400 ft. lb. seems like an awful lot for FWD.
It's not unusual for the same engine to produce a few more HP (and, in some cases, a few more ft-lbs. of torque) when running 91 or 93 octane fuel compared to 87 octane regular. That's because, all else equal, the higher octane in the fuel allows the air/fuel mixture to be ignited in the cylinder without harmful pinging or spark-knock. Modern engine controls sometimes allow the use of either regular or premium fuel. When premium is used, the computer automatically advances the spark-timing a little, allowing the premium fuel to be burned at its most efficient setting for the available compression-ratio in the cylinder (engines usually make more HP with advanced timing, but advanced timing increases the likelihood of pinging). When regular fuel is used, any ping or spark knock detected in the cylinder will cause the computer to retard the timing to the point where ping can no longer be detected.....that is where the regular fuel will be burning at its most efficient setting. But, because the timing will have been backed off a little, a few HP will probably have been lost. Usually, the way most people drive, it won't be enough to really notice. The computer, if necessary, can also do other tricks to deal with the pinging, like enrich or lean the air-fuel mixture by sending a signal to the fuel-injectors (a lean air/fuel mixture, all else equal, will ping before a rich one) or turn the turbo intercoolers on or off (all else equal, heat will increase the likelihood of pinging).

Last edited by mmarshall; 09-06-16 at 06:22 PM.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 09-06-16, 05:14 PM
  #48  
LexBob2
Lexus Champion
 
LexBob2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 11,125
Received 138 Likes on 112 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall
it's not unusual for the same engine to produce a few more HP (and, in some cases, a few more ft-lbs. of torque) when running 91 or 93 octane fuel compared to 87 octane regular. That's because, all else equal, the higher octane in the fuel allows the air/fuel mixture to be ignited in the cylinder without harmful pinging or spark-knock. Modern engine controls sometimes allow the use of either regular or premium fuel. When premium is used, the computer automatically advances the spark-timing a little, allowing the premium fuel to be burned at its most efficient setting for the available compression-ratio in the cylinder (engines usually make more HP with advanced timing, but advanced timing increases the likelihood of pinging). When regular fuel is used, any ping or spark knock detected in the cylinder will cause the computer to retard the timing to the point where ping can no longer be detected.....that is where the regular fuel will be burning at its most efficient setting. But, because the timing will have been backed off a little, a few HP will probably have been lost. Usually, the way most people drive, it won't be enough to really notice. The computer, if necessary, can also do other tricks to deal with the pinging, like enrich or lean the air-fuel mixture by sending a signal to the fuel-injectors (a lean air/fuel mixture, all else equal, will ping before a rich one) or turn the turbo intercoolers on or off (all else equal, heat will increase the likelihood of pinging).
I'm aware of all this. I was speculating on why Lincoln might be offering different HP ratings on the FWD and AWD trims.
LexBob2 is offline  
Old 09-06-16, 06:29 PM
  #49  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 91,077
Received 87 Likes on 86 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LexBob2
I'm aware of all this. I was speculating on why Lincoln might be offering different HP ratings on the FWD and AWD trims.
The HP difference between the two, I can easily believe, given the typical characteristics of torque-steer. But the same 400 ft.-lbs in the torque department for FWD and AWD is a little more interesting, though it may (?), as suggested earlier, either be two different torque curves with the same max at the same RPM (quite unusual), or simply an misprint on the web-site. Errors on automotive web sites are not common, but they do occasionally happen.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 09-06-16, 06:44 PM
  #50  
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
 
Toys4RJill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ON/NY
Posts: 30,926
Received 64 Likes on 55 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall
The HP difference between the two, I can easily believe, given the typical characteristics of torque-steer. But the same 400 ft.-lbs in the torque department for FWD and AWD is a little more interesting, though it may (?), as suggested earlier, either be two different torque curves with the same max at the same RPM (quite unusual), or simply an misprint on the web-site. Errors on automotive web sites are not common, but they do occasionally happen.
That is why I said misprint. I have never seen this exact scenario before where the torque numbers and RPM numbers are the exact same but there is a 50hp difference. Can anyone provide a scenario where this has happened?
Toys4RJill is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mmarshall
Car Chat
15
12-06-13 09:55 AM
phoebus
CT 200h Model (2011-2017)
15
09-19-10 12:02 AM
kez
SC- 1st Gen (1992-2000)
10
10-08-09 07:43 PM
GFerg
Car Chat
1
11-28-06 11:09 PM
LexFather
Car Chat
22
11-13-06 08:50 PM



Quick Reply: MM Static-Review: 2017 Lincoln MKZ Facelift



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:13 PM.