Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

3 pedals vs 2 pedals

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-12-16 | 12:37 PM
  #31  
Stroock639's Avatar
Stroock639
Lexus Test Driver
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,208
Likes: 257
From: Long Island
Default

Originally Posted by Sulu
With all due respect, this does not explain why manually shifting a normal automatic transmission (i.e. a transmission based upon a torque converter and planetary gearset(s) or "slushbox") takes so long to respond, even if they do come with paddle shifters or some other type of manual-shift gate or mechanism: manually request a gear change via a paddle or the manual gate, and it takes a measurable (slow) amount of time before the transmission responds.

The majority of automatic transmissions, especially the newest electronically-controlled 8-, 9- and 10-speed units are these types of transmissions with planetary gearsets.
because even though a signal can be almost instantly transmitted, the car's computer still has to perform a myriad of calculations before it actually changes gear, after taking into account a whole bunch of different factors and current operating conditions.
Old 09-12-16 | 01:05 PM
  #32  
Littleguy's Avatar
Littleguy
Intermediate
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 390
Likes: 44
From: Texas
Default

My FD is so fun to drive, I have a modern T-56 Magnum, I will always have and enjoy it, but for the daily I need an automatic. I will be shopping for a newer toy car soon and I'm actually open to the idea of an automatic or dual clutch transmission, they are just plain faster. I will say that as far as automatics go I never liked the Lexus 4-speed or even the newer 6-speed transmissions, so it was surprising that the 8-speed in the LS is so good, easily the best Lexus auto I have ever used.
Old 09-12-16 | 01:27 PM
  #33  
Stroock639's Avatar
Stroock639
Lexus Test Driver
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,208
Likes: 257
From: Long Island
Default

Originally Posted by Littleguy
My FD is so fun to drive, I have a modern T-56 Magnum, I will always have and enjoy it, but for the daily I need an automatic. I will be shopping for a newer toy car soon and I'm actually open to the idea of an automatic or dual clutch transmission, they are just plain faster. I will say that as far as automatics go I never liked the Lexus 4-speed or even the newer 6-speed transmissions, so it was surprising that the 8-speed in the LS is so good, easily the best Lexus auto I have ever used.
obligatory on un-rotarying your otherwise awesome RX-7

sorry but someone had to
Old 09-12-16 | 04:23 PM
  #34  
Littleguy's Avatar
Littleguy
Intermediate
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 390
Likes: 44
From: Texas
Default

Originally Posted by Stroock639
obligatory on un-rotarying your otherwise awesome RX-7

sorry but someone had to
Ahhh, now I feel at home!
Old 09-12-16 | 08:15 PM
  #35  
Sulu's Avatar
Sulu
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,309
Likes: 31
From: Canada
Default

Originally Posted by Stroock639
because even though a signal can be almost instantly transmitted, the car's computer still has to perform a myriad of calculations before it actually changes gear, after taking into account a whole bunch of different factors and current operating conditions.
Calculations can be done in milliseconds (one-thousandth of a second) -- in other words, extremely fast. The slow speed of gear changes is not due to computer control, but the hydro-mechanical (hydraulic) controls of traditional automatic transmissions.
Old 09-12-16 | 08:54 PM
  #36  
Stroock639's Avatar
Stroock639
Lexus Test Driver
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,208
Likes: 257
From: Long Island
Default

Originally Posted by Sulu
Calculations can be done in milliseconds (one-thousandth of a second) -- in other words, extremely fast. The slow speed of gear changes is not due to computer control, but the hydro-mechanical (hydraulic) controls of traditional automatic transmissions.
just because they can be doesn't mean they always are, software can be buggy sometimes. i'm sure it varies from car to car, but in the case of the 2016 MDX at least the shift times can be incredibly varied. sometimes it'll shift almost immediately, and sometimes it'll take like 3 seconds and shift very slowly and vaguely. again, i know it's different between car models, but it's not just to do with the actual mechanicals of the transmission.
Old 09-12-16 | 09:09 PM
  #37  
Sulu's Avatar
Sulu
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,309
Likes: 31
From: Canada
Default

Originally Posted by Stroock639
just because they can be doesn't mean they always are, software can be buggy sometimes. i'm sure it varies from car to car, but in the case of the 2016 MDX at least the shift times can be incredibly varied. sometimes it'll shift almost immediately, and sometimes it'll take like 3 seconds and shift very slowly and vaguely. again, i know it's different between car models, but it's not just to do with the actual mechanicals of the transmission.
Embedded software control is my profession. Software control is always faster than the blink of an eye and should not vary (if it does, it is a bad design and there is a fault in the software) or the gear-change request is being sampled at a very, very, very, very slow rate (on the order of seconds rather than milliseconds). What is slow is the actual hydraulic control of the bands and clutches; electronically-controlled bands and clutches should be faster.
Old 09-12-16 | 10:06 PM
  #38  
rominl's Avatar
rominl
exclusive matchup
CL Folding 10,000
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 81,674
Likes: 197
From: Lovely OC
Default

Originally Posted by SW15LS
It might be "pretty close" but it's not the same, it's not total control. To a purist that's an issue.
agreed. either it is or it is not, and i have not seen one that is
Old 09-16-16 | 02:18 AM
  #39  
Aron9000's Avatar
Aron9000
Thread Starter
Lexus Champion
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 28
From: TN
Default

The fun of the manual transmission is the mechanical satisfaction, the feeling that YOU are in control, that YOU executed that perfect heel-toe downshift, that there is a certain skill set and satisfaction with mastering that skill set.

I will also say that a manual transmission makes an otherwise very boring vehicle to drive a bit more interesting. Take for example my 2004 Tacoma. Its 2wd, reg cab, short box, no options(a/c, power steering, power brakes, cloth seats, carpets, etc were standard, its nicely trimmed despite no options). Powertrain is the rather revvy and IMO annoying low on torque 2RZ-FE, 142hp@5000rpm and 160lb-ft torque at 4000rpm. You have to rev the nuts off this engine to get it into its powerband. This somewhat heavy 3100lb truck with a constantly upshifting automatic, I can't imagine how annoyingly slow it would be. Yet with the manual, you can wind out the gears, heel-toe downshift it, man its pretty fun to rev the nuts off it, its very easy to keep the revs above 3200 or so to 5500 where it is happy. There is just NO POWER below 3k, it lugs like a son of a ***** below 2k.
Old 10-11-16 | 09:13 AM
  #40  
GhostCar's Avatar
GhostCar
Rookie
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 40
Likes: 2
From: Missouri
Default

I come from all kinds of places when it comes to manual transmission cars. Being into classic cars, I drove a 1959 Ford F250 last week with an unsynchronized granny first gear on a 4-speed manual shifting an old straight 6 cylinder. It was fun to experience the 1950s technology, as it is in mint mechanical condition, but I sure wouldn't want to drive that thing every day!

Driving a big block Chevelle with a 4 speed is another, completely different experience, and one that I enjoy very much. All mechanical, clunky as hell, but fun in a way no car can be today. That's some real auto nostalgia in action!

Then I think about my 2004 Acura TL that I recently sold. Rare 6 speed manual, and shifted like absolute butter. Such smooth, quiet power, easy clutch, effortless acceleration, a true pleasure to drive in an every day situation, although I'd make the case you could leave out 3rd gear or just stick with a 5 speed and it would be even better.

And finally, the GhostCar--my '93 ES300 5 speed. It's interesting to drive, because it's a Lexus sedan with a manual, but admittedly, it really isn't much fun. It's slow, weak, and loud when you really get into the revs, and the throws are about 6 feet long. lol. But I appreciate the car for what it is, and love driving a 23 year old car that is rare and in absolute mint condition...

But in the end, I love driving my Lexus daily driver, an '01 ES300 with low miles. It's. Just. Comfortable.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
tuandino
Car Chat
24
04-30-18 03:51 PM
pbateson
Car Chat
29
11-29-11 12:11 AM
LexFather
Car Chat
175
03-08-10 05:20 PM
RXGS
Car Chat
31
07-20-08 12:19 PM
LexFather
Car Chat
31
08-15-05 05:46 PM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:20 PM.