mmarshall

Some time ago, before my knee-injury, I did a static-review (no test-drive) of the latest-generation Miata (the Fiat 124, of course, is the same vehicle with an Italian-built engine and slightly different body). I was not able to test-drive a manual-transmission version, due to simple supply/demand for the manuals at that time (they were all pre-sold or not in stock), and I did my static-review on an automatic version (I'm including that here for back-reference). Even automatics, then, were hard to find in stock.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...zda-miata.html


But I didn't bother test-driving it for two reasons, First, I'd feel petty silly driving a car like this with a slush-box automatic (though I once test-drove an old first-generation Miata, with the top down, at 35 degrees Farenheit, just above freezing....can't get much sillier than that LOL). Second, although Mazda DOES sell automatic-equipped models, IMO it defeats one of the main purposes of this car.....the pure, no-nonsense, simple roadster-fun that it is famous for. Mazda also sells power-folding hard-top Miatas, but the standard fabric top is so ingeniously simply-designed and easy to fold that, unless one has arm or shoulder problems (or needs extra security from a break-in), that version probably doesn't make much sense, either.

Well, there's no more excuses today for waiting, as 6-speed manual versions are readily in stock, although at the big Mazda shop I was at today, they were all top-line Grand Touring models, similarly equipped at 31K....which is still reasonable compared to many convertibles and sports cars. Lower-line models start at 24K, but weren't in stock. It also wanted to try a manual version today for a couple of other reasons. My right knee is coming along fine after the operation...virtually normal now, and walking without either a cane or brace, but the left one is weak (fortunately, not painful), somewhat deformed from arthritis/cartilage-loss, and may have to be replaced. I wanted to see if I could still handle a clutch with that other weak knee without any problems (no problems indeed...but I'll get to that later). The very low-slung Miata is also a test, getting in and out of, for large persons with weak legs (A.K.A. myself).

So, I picked out one of the 6MT Grand Touring models (with a soft-top, listing at 31K, just like all the others), got the key and dealer-plate, and shoehorned myself in. I it took a little effort to get in, but not as much as I had expected. (OK....I cheated a little by picking the one that had the most swing-open door-space next to the driver's door LOL). Typical for Miatas, and for most small 2-seat roadsters, there is little if any space behind the driver for the seat-back to recline without hitting the back-stop...you have to slide the bottom cushion up to allow for that. So, it took me a couple minutes of fiddling with the manual seat controls to reach the best (in other words, acceptable) driving position. This latest Miata does seem to have at least a little more room under the adjustable steering column for large heavy legs like mine....though still tight, I didn't have to (quite) wrap my left leg around the wheel to reach the clutch pedal, like with previous versions.

OK...start her up with the engine start button. No Lexus-refinement here....the normally-aspirated in-line four comes to life with a loud nasal drawl, and the short, stubby shift-lever next to you on the console shakes in your hands like a wet dog. Looking out the windshield at the hood (which is so low that you can easily see most of it from the drivers' seat)...even the hood shakes with some noticeable vibration. Isolation is simply not his car's forte.....nor, of course, is it meant to be.

The RWD 2.0L Skyactiv four, with its 155 HP and 148 ft-lbs. of torque, doesn't sound like much on paper. But, given the car's relatively light weight, close-ratio transmission with short gear-spacing designed for power, rapid RPM-increase with throttle pressure, and good aerodynamics/wind-reststance, this car will definitely get out of its own way. Torque is meager down low, but rapidly builds with RPMs, and you can get a noticeable push-back in the seat. Noise, of course (plenty of it, especially with the top down) also goes with it....but noise is expected in a car like this.

The close-ratio six-speed manual has what is arguably one of the best RWD shift-linkages on the planet, just as the award for best FWD manual-shift linkage probably goes to the Honda Civic. The shift-lever, as I mentioned earlier, does vibrate, though not as much on the road as at idle. Unlike the Civic's, it does take a little effort pushing it, but the snick-snick action and very short lever-throws become second nature by the time you've driven only a couple of blocks. The clutch pedal was a little small for my big left foot, and the three pedals were spaced rather closely together (probably to aid in heel-and-toe shifting), but I had no significant problems operating any of them...at least compared to past Miatas. The clutch pedal engages steadily but rather abruptly, just a coupe of inches off the floor. You have to slip it a little if you want to get a really smooth start...but, then again, smooth driving is generally not this car's forte. On the gauge panel, a gear-indicator shows you what gear you are in (unusual for a manual transmission), when you can safely shift up one or more gears for more gas economy and less engine wear, but doesn't operate when the clutch is pushed in...so it won't necessarily warn you if you are shifting into the wrong gear until you actually let the pedal back out and engage it. And, of course, the transmission is so shortly-geared that even 6th gear, the highest one, can be used at surprisingly low road speeds....no engine-loafing with this one.

Steering response is quick, but not quite as much as what I remember from previous Miatas. Even so, the latest steering units, unlike the previous manual (unassisted) steering, have electric power-assist and a 15.5 : 1 steering-ratio. And doing a quick U-Turn or 180 at an intersection, with the steering wheel, requires little more than just a quick flick of the wrist. Body roll is almost nonexistent on a car this light and low-slung, although the suspension, still on the firm side in nature with the car, seems just a little more compliant over bumps than before. I sampled the ride with both the top down and up (it's so ingeniously simple to raise/lower that it can usually be done in a few seconds). With the top up, noise level dropped markedly, which is a sign of good insulation in the top....but, even so, this car is far from quiet. Top down, the wind-blocker behind the seat did its job. Even though my baseball cap (I made sure the cap was on tightly LOL) stuck up as high as the windshield header, it wasn't loosened or blown off. There was generally a low wind-turbulence level in the cockpit.

There was some vibration/shimmy felt through the car's structure at first....it was hard to tell whether it was simply flat-spotted tires that had sit awhile, or if it was typical convertible cowl-shake. The windshield header, though, didn't seem to vibrate, as it often does with classic cowl-shake, and the shimmy generally improved as the car (and tires) warmed up...but did not completely disappear. The brakes were effective, though, as I mentioned earlier, the pedals were a little smaller and closer together than was ideal for my big size-15 feet. The car is light enough that it doesn't take much braking action to slow it down.

One other thing rather odd on the dash....the analog-style coolant-temperature gauge, on the left, has the entire normal/warm-up range crowded into the very small space on the left side of the gauge, while the range from 210 to 250 degrees (overheating range) occupies the other three-fourths of the gauge. I'm not sure of just what the engineers were thinking with a design like that....unless they thought the engine would be prone to overheating (and the Fiat 124 Spyder version of this car, of course, does have a more powerful, Italian-designed engine which may be unreliable LOL).

Anyhow, in a nutshell, easily the best Miata yet.....especially for a big ox like me.

And, of course, as always, Happy Car Shopping.

MM

SW17LS

Too funny...I drove one of these today myself, as well as a Fiat 124. One of my buddies at work is looking to buy one as a fun car, and we snuck out this afternoon and drove both of them back to back. Which dealer did you go to?

Definitely the best Miata yet, we found that we actually preferred the Miata to the Fiat 124, the Fiat we drove was an automatic (theres a 4 month waiting list for a manual 124) and the Miata was the manual. The Fiat had noticeable Turbo lag which was really off putting to my friend, I had heard that in some of the reviews I had watched also. Inside the cars are basically identical, the Fiat didn't have a screen (it was a low model) so I couldn't compare the infotainment differences.

Outside I know a lot of people prefer the Fiat, but I actually like the Miata better.

We were able to push both cars down a local winding road, as well as get out on the highway and we found that the Fiat handled a little bit flatter, but the powertrain was more usable around town in the Miata.

He'll be buying a red with black Grand Touring this upcoming week. Fun car, I'm excited for him.

I also got to check out the CX-9 which I had not seen yet which is very nice. Another thread for that one obviously.

mmarshall

Small world, isn't it? Sounds like you hit the jackpot.

Out by Dulles, just off 50. You can look at almost anything on four wheels in that complex....with some other dealerships also nearby. It's like the big dealer-complex in Silver Spring, just off Route 29...but even better. The dealerships are all huge, right next to each other, mostly brand-new, with LOTS of parking, and a good network of light-traffic roads south of the complex for test-drives. That's why I do a lot of reviews (and a fair amount of shopping with others) there.


Yeah, not much utility in these cars, but they are great weekend fun-toys. (although trunk space is not bad by small roadster-standards).

Yeah, they're finally making the Miata (just barely) for 6-foot Americans.....although bitkahuna had an older one, and I think (?) he's taller than I am. The one I drove was still just a little too narrow in the seat-bolstering for my wide frame...forgot to mention that above.

The Fiat, though, does have a nice-looking front-end in the classic Italian style.....IMO better-looking than the Miata's.

Again, not surprising. Don't want to sound too stereotypical, but, aside from those who simply don't know how to drive a stick, probably the only people who would buy these cars with automatics are those with physical disabilities or those stuck in gridlock traffic all the time.....and then, who would want these cars in gridlock anyway? They were built to DRIVE.


Part of that may (?) have been the slush-box automatic (assuming it is not a dual-clutch automanual). Conventional fluid-drive automatics often sap throttle response, and make turbo lag even more noticeable.

Congratulations to him. Hope he enjoys it. Let me know if he wants a small bottle of you-know-what LOL.

Yeah, if you have the time (I know you're busy with wife and kids), give us at least a brief report on it. I briefly looked at a new CX-9 myself today (hadn't seen it before), but, of course, spent most of the time with the Miata.

Aron9000

^ MMarshall, how tall are you??? I know if you're over about 5'11" a Miata just doesn't work for ya. I mean, yeah you might barely fit with your head rubbing the top, but that's not comfortable. I know the NC(last generation) Miata was noticeably roomier than the previous versions(mainly wider I noticed, I'm 5'6" so headroom is no worries), just wondering if the new car has as much room. I know they lost about 200lbs from the NC to the new car, just wondering if they physically shrank the size of the car/cabin to get it done.

Main thing I love about the Miata is that you can really push the car on public roads without going to jail or killing yourself. The limits are low, the car isn't that fast, so you can wind out 2 or 3 gears and only be going 55-60mph. You wind out a couple of gears in a Corvette or Porsche(especially a Porsche with their tall gears), you are doing 90,100mph, ie go to jail speed. Also you can drive pretty close to the handling limit in a Miata, the car doesn't have any scary surprises, ie no lift off oversteer, not enough power to for it to swap ends on you coming around a corner, and you're still going around the speed limit.

mmarshall

As I've posted before, I'm a big boy....6' 2" (maybe a little more than that in my cap), and 280 lbs. You're correct that the 1Gen Miata was a sardine can (and the smaller Lotus Elise was even worse...you should have seen what I had to do to get in and out of and drive THAT torture-chamber LOL). The 2Gen Miata was a little more tolerant of my big frame (not much)....and this new 4Gen model, a little more so. Both me and Steve (SW15GS) agree that this is the best Miata yet for tall people, although the seat cushions on the ones I saw today (though close) still aren't quite wide enough for my big frame. My cap does about stick up to the top of the windshield header, but with a soft fabric top, when closed, it doesn't impact much on headroom...the cap just touches the soft surface.

If you are 5' 6", with typical weight and leg-length for a person that height, I don't think you'll have any problems inside of it, though, of course, getting in and out of a car that sits this low to the ground will take either some stooping and/or letting oneself down sideways, butt-first, into the seat very carefully. And it's a rather big push up when getting out.

Don't forget, though, this car has the short gear-spacing typical of a small roadster. So, in general, you really can't wring the gears out that long before you start running out of RPMs, especially with a new engine breaking-in, where you don't want to exceed 4000-4500 RPM for a while. Though I obviously didn't attempt a top-speed run, even sixth gear in this car, flat-out, probably won't get you anywhere near real Autobahn speeds.

​This car is almost perfectly balanced 50/50 front/rear, weight-wise, so handling tends to be quite neutral....little real oversteer or understeer. Swapping ends, especially like what old rear-engine Porsches were notorious for, was not so much from the power level, but the tail-heaviness of those cars. If you hit a corner too fast, and instinctively let up on the gas or hit the brake (as many drivers did), that produced classic drop-throttle snap-oversteer as the weight in the rear end suddenly shot forward around the turn, taking the back end of the car with it. If you were lucky, you could recover or partially-recover...if not, you would end up in the ditch, rolled over, or, on a mountain road, maybe hung up in the guard rail. If you were on a mountain road and there was no guard rail, well..................


The tail-heaviness of the rear-engine Porsches, though, did have one benefit......very short braking distances. Under heavy braking in a straight line, the car's center of gravity, in the back, would shift forward to roughly the middle of the car. That put roughly equal weight (and braking action) on all four wheels, making for excellent stopping distances. Most vehicles, even front-engine/RWD, tend to be nose-heavy on braking, and the front brakes do most of the work.

Aron9000

I've always felt there was enough room in the Miata since I'm a small guy, main thing I like is the ergonomics have always been spot on perfect. The placement of the shifter, steering wheels, pedals, seat, the low door sill, the relatively upright windshield, uncomplicated controls, its just perfect, really makes you feel at one with the car. Other sports cars should really take notice of how good the Miata is in this regard. The S2000 I've driven was also really good in this regard except for the stupid placement of the radio right in front of the gear shift low on the dash. I'd really like to drive the new Miata, but I'm staying clear of the Mazda dealer for a while, they always have a couple of nice used Miatas on their lot to tempt me($31k is a bit steep for a new one, 10k for a used one is serious temptation).

As far as spooky handling, I always wanted a Toyota MR2 until a friend bought one. He had a stockish 1st gen MR2, mid engined 4 cylinder about the size of a Miata if you aren't familiar with them. Rode with him on an autocross course and felt first hand what you are talking about, snap throttle oversteer. He was in a long, fast sweeper too hot, didn't lose enough speed, car was running wide so he let off the gas and the back end started to come around. We were going slow enough that he was able to catch it(and knew what to do), we killed some cones on the outside of that curve though with the back quarter panel. After that sort of surreal experience I finally decided I didn't want one(I was on the fence with that intimidatingly tight engine bay)

mmarshall

Yes....some people actually get addicted to Miatas. They do have an intoxicating effect on dome drivers.

If you want to check out a new Miata, and stay clear of the Mazda shops, then check out a Fiat 124 Spyder if you have a Fiat shop near you. It's essentially the same car except for the engine and front-end styling. If Steve's experience, though, is any guide, you might have a hard time finding an unsold 6MT model.

Yes, Thanks, I'm familiar with MR2s. My old Flight Instructor had a '94 Turbo MR2, and I used to help him take care of it....and tried it out a couple of times. I didn't like the MR2's road-manners, either. With the majority of the weight behind the driver, it tended to be a little unstable, though the stability control helped. Still, it tended to wander somewhat from side-to-side on a long straight highway, and it took a number of small steering corrections to keep it centered in its lane. That instability on a straight road, though, tended to really help it in the corners...it loved twisting two-lane roads, as long as you didn't overdo it like your friend did.. But it clearly wasn't the car for me. It rode too stiffly for my tastes, too, and the placement of the engine, away from the airflow coming in from the front, even with cooling-grates, made the engine run somewhat hot.

SW17LS

Yeah we went up to Criswell Fiat in Gaithersburg and Mazda up in Gaithersburg off of 355. I'm actually going to be in Chantilly tomorrow, I have a meeting at our HQ out there, I might just pop by and see some cars afterwards.

Yeah we were both surprised by the trunk, not too bad and the top doesn't affect it at all.

We're both 6', he's a little bigger framed than I am (I'm ~ 200lbs, I wear a 42L suit jacket), but we were both quite comfortable, and with the top up we were surprised by the headroom.

One niggle I had, the Grand Touring uses the same big, homeland equipped Gentex mirror I have in the LS and the Sedona. Takes up a lot of the windshield, overkill in size.

I dunno, I like the Japanese styling of the Miata better because thats what it really is. The Fiat has a bunch of nonfunctional fake air intakes, the nose is longer simply for styling reasons...and while it looks Italian my friend made a good point...its NOT Italian, its made by Mazda alongside the Miata in Japan...at least the Miata is what it actually is. I went in expecting to like the Fiat better and came away preferring the Miata.

The Fiat saleswoman (who was quite good) said the issue is that the vast majority of them that ship are automatics, that Fiat actually underestimated the demand for the manual because few Miatas are sold in manual. They're ramping up production of the manual, so right now we'd have a right of first refusal on a manual (couldn't order, we'd have to take or leave whatever comes in), but her hope was by November they would start allowing special orders.

There is also a cool limited edition blue 124, only 124 of them made...they had one in the showroom #34 of 124. $5k markup. Anything manual is MSRP at least. Contrast that to Mazda where discounts are aplenty on the Miata, plenty of manuals around...makes it hard to wait and pay way more for the Fiat.

He wants the manual, because its his fun car and his daughters don't know how to drive a manual so they can't drive it LOL. He had an Audi A4 Convertible that they totaled a few years ago.

Could very well have been.

I will!

Will do!

mmarshall

I did my first Fiat 500 review at Criswell.......Tysons Fiat hadn't opened up yet. (I was very impressed with Criswell at the time)

Anyhow, if you're going to Chantilly, the big complex is just south of Rte. 50 at Stonecroft Blvd.....about a mile or so west of the Rte. 28 interchange. South on Stonecroft, and Auto Park Circle is the first right. You'll be amazed at all those beautiful big dealerships there, around the big circle, with acres of parking.....and test-drive roads. On the other side of the circle, further down Stonecroft, is a brand-new Honda shop (can't miss the Honda shop...it's got a big propeller spinning on a wind-generator). And, nearby, Pohanka Lexus, Pohanka Acura, and Pohanka Chevy are together on Rte. 50, just east of Rte. 28, and Moore Cadillac is just west of the big complex at Stonecroft, on the north side of Rte. 50. Take your choice.

(There also used to be a Mitsubishi shop on 50, next to Moore Cadillac, but, like all of the other Mitsubishi shops in Northern VA, they closed up)

There's some good places there to eat, too.....you'll see.

SW17LS

Oh I've been there a couple times, I just don't get out that way too often.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i believe this new one is the fourth generation (NA, NB, NC, ND?).

as you know, i had an NC, and at 6'3/210 i was quite comfortable in it. the only mod i made to the interior was i removed the dead pedal plastic 'block' and cut it down to about 1/3 the height and reinstalled it so my left leg wasn't bent at the knee so much when cruising. respectfully, not sure the snugness for you is much about height.

thx for the review, from your perspective though (not lexus smooth, you can actually hear the car, etc.), but did you ENJOY driving it? also, no plusses/minuses or mention of the likely manual hood prop rod?

mmarshall

Yes, Thanks, you're correct....a typo on my part. I'll correct that.

Yes, the earlier-generation models (especially 1 and 2Gen) tended to make taller people bow their legs around the steering column like a pretzel. The latest one is somewhat improved in that area.....I had less trouble adjusting myself to it than with any previous version.

You're roughly an inch or so taller than I am without a cap on.....but your legs may not (?) be the same size (or length) as mine, which may account as to how you were able to adjust to the rather cramped quarters.

Yes, this car is quite pleasurable to drive, from a pure sports/car roadster point of view. It was on C&D's Ten Best List for many years, precisely for that reason. One does not expect Lexus LS-levels of refinement from a car like this......I made that clear in my write-up. Not only that, but this car probably wouldn't sell if it was Lexus-quiet.....the noise is part of the driving experience.

I enjoyed driving it, as with previous Miatas, as a once-in-a-while experience, but it clearly is not a daily-driver for me. Too small, too low-slung, too firm and noisy for a long trip (one would get fatigued after several hours), too many engine-RPMs at cruise from the short-geared transmission (even in 6th gear), not enough overnight security with the rag-top version, lousy wet/snow traction, and not enough trunk space (though trunk space is not bad for a convertible that size). But, as I mentioned in the write-up, it makes a superb fun-machine in the proper environment (i.e. winding roads).

This was specifically a test-drive. I addressed those issues in the earlier static-review (which, BTW, I included for reference).

dseag2

Exactly. I owned the last gen ('06 Mazda Miata MX-5) soft top with a 6-speed manual. It was actually a third car, since it is so impractical for most uses. I LOVED driving that car locally to the grocery store or on errands because it truly felt like an extension of me. It was great with the top down. Even though it wasn't fast, it felt like it was because of the engine and tranny.

That said, with the top up on the highway the drone from the engine made me want to poke my ears out. It truly does have its limitations, but when you find the right road it is a blast!

Ironically, I traded it for a used '06 SC430, which was the polar opposite. No fun to drive, but quiet, comfortable and numb. Didn't keep that one very long either.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

haha, conflicted much? left brain (sensible), right brain (yeeeehaaaaa!)

SW17LS

They're delivering my buddies red Miata right now! Got him a great deal.