Consumer Reports no longer recommends Honda Civic
10-28-16, 08:21 PM
#61
Lexus Champion
OK, Folks.........I'm not going to take the time to write up a long review per se (just a relatively short write-up here), but I looked over a number of different new Civics today, LX and EX models, coupes, sedans, and hatchbacks. (an aside note.....the BIG Honda dealership I was at today provides all of its electric power from a wind-turbine, unusual for this area....you could see the big propeller-blades spinning from some distance away). Consumer Reports may (?) have some reason to remove its former Recommended rating for something not readily apparent in the showroom or on the lot, like a bad NHTSA/IIHS crash-test result or worsening reliability. But after a careful inspection, I could not find anything significant in the overall design, build/assembly quality, or road manners of this car (I test-drove an LX model with the N/A 2.0L four and CVT that listed for 20K) that would cause it to be panned for any of those reasons. Of course, I did not do any extreme maneuvers on the skidpad, panic-stops, or pedal-to-the metal 0-60 runs...so I can't comment on the car's behavior at the limits. But, in typical suburban driving, it was perfectly acceptable. It had a strong, refined engine for its size. The CVT was one of the best-performing that I've sampled yet (no motorboating or rubber-banding)....with stepped-banding that imitated a conventional automatic very well. After the initial second or so, with even moderate throttle, it really shot forward in first "gear".....you had to be careful of the car in front of you. The chassis, with the LX-level suspension/tires (stamped-steel wheels and plastic covers, not alloys), was a fairly good combination of ride and handling, slightly slower steering response than I expected, but still agile. Wind noise was well-controlled, though the (usual) Honda road noise in its lower-end vehicles was there. Brakes were much better than the old Push-and-Pray pedal I can remember from a couple of decades ago....Civic brakes have been steadily improving over the years.
The general assembly-quality, inside and out, is still (mostly) the same, usual Honda care and attention to detail, fit/finish, and material quality, and, by the standards of this class, doors shut like bank vaults. Although there was a lot of hard plastic in the LX trim inside (EX models had fabric instead of plastic on the door-panels), it seemed high quality plastic, not overly-cheap stuff. Only the somewhat flimsy-feeling glove-box latch and somewhat loosely-attached outside chrome strips above the headlights subtracted from the traditional Honda Swiss-Watch precision assembly and quality of materials. I wasn't very impressed with the flat, firmly-padded seats, but there was nothing really wrong with them...and they had a durable-feeling fabric. The stereo was relatively easy to use in the LX model.....much less so in the EX, where the controls are embedded into the video-screen. I also didn't care for the digital speedometer in the middle of the central-mount tach, but that is a personal preference, not something objective.
Last, of course, today's Civic (comparatively) is BIG. If you haven't seen or driven one lately, it has grown to basically to the size of what an Accord was not long ago. That's one reason why Honda brought the Fit (Jazz) here to the U.S. from overseas...to have a new small entry-level product to take the place where the older, smaller Civics once occupied.
So......IMHO, unless this car has really developed some reliability problems lately, or is not very safe in an accident, I can see no reason not to consider it. In fact, if it were my money, I'd take one home before the (competing) Ford Focus, which I never liked.
The general assembly-quality, inside and out, is still (mostly) the same, usual Honda care and attention to detail, fit/finish, and material quality, and, by the standards of this class, doors shut like bank vaults. Although there was a lot of hard plastic in the LX trim inside (EX models had fabric instead of plastic on the door-panels), it seemed high quality plastic, not overly-cheap stuff. Only the somewhat flimsy-feeling glove-box latch and somewhat loosely-attached outside chrome strips above the headlights subtracted from the traditional Honda Swiss-Watch precision assembly and quality of materials. I wasn't very impressed with the flat, firmly-padded seats, but there was nothing really wrong with them...and they had a durable-feeling fabric. The stereo was relatively easy to use in the LX model.....much less so in the EX, where the controls are embedded into the video-screen. I also didn't care for the digital speedometer in the middle of the central-mount tach, but that is a personal preference, not something objective.
Last, of course, today's Civic (comparatively) is BIG. If you haven't seen or driven one lately, it has grown to basically to the size of what an Accord was not long ago. That's one reason why Honda brought the Fit (Jazz) here to the U.S. from overseas...to have a new small entry-level product to take the place where the older, smaller Civics once occupied.
So......IMHO, unless this car has really developed some reliability problems lately, or is not very safe in an accident, I can see no reason not to consider it. In fact, if it were my money, I'd take one home before the (competing) Ford Focus, which I never liked.
I am curious what those issues are. Is it a problem with the turbocharged engine, with the CVT (with the turbocharged engine or the normal engine), a problem with the electronics (including the central infotainment screen) or a combination of problems?
10-28-16, 08:23 PM
#62
Lexus Fanatic
We all seem to be obsessed over minor issues, like low availability at dealers, but this car has been out for a year now and with the year of experience, CR's subscribers have said there are reliability issues. You will not be able to tell me there are no reliability issues if you have only driven the car for less than a few months, and most car reviewers (unless it is a rare long-term test) only have the car for only 1 or 2 weeks; that is not long enough to say there are no reliability or even seat comfort issues.
A simple static-inspection/test-drive, though (and my experience today), shows that the new Civic, for the most part, still seems to come from the factory assembled like a Swiss Watch...but that those (still) well-assembled parts may simply not be as reliable as they once were.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-28-16 at 08:27 PM.
10-28-16, 08:31 PM
#63
Lexus Champion
No, of course not....that pretty much goes without saying. That is why I did not address any reliability issues here, and left it up to other sources.
A simple static-inspection/test-drive, though (and my experience today), shows that the new Civic, for the most part, still seems to come from the factory assembled like a Swiss Watch...but that those (still) well-assembled parts may simply not be as reliable as they once were.
A simple static-inspection/test-drive, though (and my experience today), shows that the new Civic, for the most part, still seems to come from the factory assembled like a Swiss Watch...but that those (still) well-assembled parts may simply not be as reliable as they once were.
10-28-16, 09:56 PM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
toyota/lexus has a well deserved reputation for quality and low defects. it doesn't take CR to state the obvious.
10-28-16, 09:59 PM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
10-28-16, 10:00 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Here's the problem though, they'e hiding the reliability info within this "total vehicle score" which includes their subjective driving opinions. You have to dig down to find just the reliability info, making them a lot less valuable. Non enthusiasts don't look at what goes into the rating, they just see that score. They would chose a 7 over an LS because the "score" is higher, when their own reported reliability for the 7 is much lower.
He happens to be correct. Have you ever filled out a CR survey?
i see your sedona isn't recommended while the majority of kia products are. 
they just count every subjective 'item' and a car that has 2 'items' is "twice as bad" as a car that has 1 item (oh noes!)
Last edited by bitkahuna; 10-28-16 at 10:15 PM.
10-28-16, 10:01 PM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
in 1976 toyota was not a paragon of automotive quality.
10-28-16, 10:10 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I believe this is one of the reasons CR knocked down the Civic. They also take into consideration 'ease of use' of which this is not, at least not until one gets used to it. CR as another point of reference is good, however one must read their reviews, as many items they may knock a vehicle for is something you may be looking for. Example- CR states ride is 'stiff', but this is your preference. Same goes with access to controls. CR does not like the screen only controls. They look for dials, buttons, etc.
CR's subscribers have said there are reliability issues.
I am curious what those issues are. Is it a problem with the turbocharged engine, with the CVT (with the turbocharged engine or the normal engine), a problem with the electronics (including the central infotainment screen) or a combination of problems?
I am curious what those issues are. Is it a problem with the turbocharged engine, with the CVT (with the turbocharged engine or the normal engine), a problem with the electronics (including the central infotainment screen) or a combination of problems?
10-29-16, 06:35 AM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
Where do you come up with that? Yes, it was.....especially compared to the junk that Detroit was producing at the time, which was getting worse and worse every year, even with the new catalytic converters. Why do you think that the mid-70s marked the start of the great Mass Exodus from American-nameplates to Japanese? The only significant problem that Japanese cars had at that time, compared to American cars, was thin sheet metal that was not well-treated for corrosion, so they did not adapt well at first to American winters. And the Honda CVCC stratified-charge engine, which met 1975 emissions without a catalyst, was basically undrivable (it would stall) until it had almost fully warmed up. But even those problems were corrected in the 1980s.
One of the guys in our carpool at the time got a new manual-transmission 1977 Corolla, and, though the ride was as bouncy as a rubber ball, the car itself was built like a Swiss Watch.
One of the guys in our carpool at the time got a new manual-transmission 1977 Corolla, and, though the ride was as bouncy as a rubber ball, the car itself was built like a Swiss Watch.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-29-16 at 06:43 AM.
10-29-16, 06:49 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Honestly I've never even looked at their ranking for the Sedona lol, I'll have to look.
I do have a friend that bought an Odyssey and told me he didn't look at the Sedona because "the cost of ownership was more in year 5 and 6, well the Sedona was all new in 2015 so hard to know that for sure lol
I do have a friend that bought an Odyssey and told me he didn't look at the Sedona because "the cost of ownership was more in year 5 and 6, well the Sedona was all new in 2015 so hard to know that for sure lol
10-29-16, 07:12 AM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
CR didn't seem to like it quite as much as I did when I reviewed the top-line SXL version. They commented on the nice slick drivetrain and good space efficiency, but criticized its "stiff" ride (I don't particularly agree on the stiff ride) and what they considered impractical or a lack of features inside.
10-29-16, 07:25 AM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
I will agree that it doesn't ride as well as other vans in the segment. But lack of features inside I don't get. It has features you can't even get on an Odyssey for instance.
10-29-16, 08:20 AM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
I think their chief complaint inside was that you couldn't remove the 2nd-row seats (or stow them under the floor, like with Chrysler minivans). But most people, of course, don't need to do that, most of the time, unless they are hauling some really big stuff. Besides, from what I remember on the SXL, the Captain's Chairs in the rear adjust in a number of ways that probably make up for that.
10-29-16, 07:47 PM
#74
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by Sulu
I was commenting on the fact that no one here has driven the new Civic for the full year, unlike CR's subscribers. No one contributing to this thread is in a position to say that there are no problems with the Civic.
I think it's important to remember that the 2012 Civic also got dropped from CR's recommended list. Honda rushed an emergency redo 18 months later. This time Honda went all out with a brand new global platform and they got a lot of it right, but they will have to fix the things that are wrong.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
is CR specific in how their ranking is calculated though? last i checked, they weren't.
10-29-16, 09:13 PM
#75
Lexus Fanatic
Have you ever owned a 70's Toyota? The quality, fit and finish etc. was eons better than American cars. Look at the body lines/gaps on a 70's American sedan they are atrocious. Shims all over the place and things still don't fit properly. Mechanically Toyota was also much better with higher tech engines that made good power for their day.