2016/17 LX570 or 2017 Audi Q7?
11-28-16 | 07:30 AM
#46
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From: ON/NY
11-28-16 | 07:38 PM
#48
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Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,709
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From: FL
Great discussion; thanks everyone for the input thus far. Nice to see lots of familiar names and a couple new ones (to me). I've been on top of the thread more or less but had not had a chance to chime in again to try to respond along the way as I typically like to do.
So, for starters, yes, I am a fan of "old school" V8 BOF trucks (though I'd certainly take a unibody with a V8 too!). In this respect, I love the LX (and LC). Having said this, a supercharged V6 will definitely do, and while I do need a capable AWD/4WD system (for our delightful winters), I don't need true off-road capabilities. The one extra I do seek is height control (which, incidentally, the Q7 offers in the same package as 4-wheel steering). Third row seating, while never used (yet) is a good backup as my children grow.
Diesel would also be an option (more on this at the end...)... [Insert your favorite VW joke here]
FWIW (and given the references to GX/Q7 cross-shopping), I did use to be a "GX guy" (GX470 was our first Lexus, which was rock solid). Five+ years later, I test drove the very first GX460 to arrive at my dealership, and well, my thoughts are captured in the sticky "New GX460!" thread. It was fine, but between the substantial reduction in cargo volume and the price increase (at the time, everything inbound was fully loaded at 67/68k, non-negotiable), the LX caught our eye. It was on the same playing field in terms of technology, was more spacious and noticeably more powerful, and the MSRP difference of a bit less than $20k was closer to $15k on a purchase price basis. The rest is history... To this day (as recently as yesterday), I look at basic dimensions, features and pricing and could not justify touching a GX460. On many/most interior dimensions, Q7 is roomier than LX, and even more so for GX (with the notable exception of rear legroom, I believe).
In terms of some other vehicles:
1. Land Cruiser: Beyond what I shared earlier (and what SW15LS pointed out regarding market conditions, etc.), even if I were coming at this without my own LX, I would still go for the LX. Other than its rarity (LX is still pretty darn rare around here too) and off-road prowess, like I said, a 3/36 warranty is a problem to me at that price point (and ditto for the manual lift gate, no height control [though KDSS is a plus], plastic wood, etc.). Built to last? No doubt, and I respect that. It's just not for me at the current LX-to-LC price difference.
2. GLS: I can appreciate many features of this vehicle and vividly remember checking a GL 550 out at the auto show and comparing it to the pre-refresh LX. I don't know if it's a brand image thing or the memories of my father's MB sedans constantly breaking down, but I just can't get myself to become a Mercedes fan. Acknowledging that they have come a long way, I must admit I still have reliability concerns.
More broadly, as nice as it is, it doesn't seem to offer quite enough additional features (from my perspective) to warrant what wouldn't be a necessary purchase/upgrade, and even in GLS 450 form, you throw in a handful of "essentials", and before you know it, you are pushing $100k. This brings me back to new LX territory and the original conundrum (given our perfectly good 2010 LX).
3. Escalade: I rented one last year and really enjoyed the technology (which at the time was light years ahead of LX pre-refresh). The ride, however, wasn't all that great, and neither was the quality (e.g., popping clock spring and other rattles in a sub-7k-mile vehicle). It does get kudos on the drivetrain, especially given its use and fairly seamless implementation of cylinder deactivation. I had a 2015 1/2 rental, so it also had the 8-speed transmission. The thing had noticeably better mpg than the LX, and while the ride wasn't as refined, it was - overall - very comfortable. I did about 8 hours of driving on the first day (and on a little more than one tank!) and felt fine.
In a nutshell, it is all this - combined with overall size/dimensions, features (cool and practical alike - Virtual Cockpit being one that's both), and Audi's reliability/service climb - that led us to consider the Q7. On a side note, I keep reading that the European twin turbo diesel V8 SQ7 might make it to the US for 2018. What have you all seen?
So, for starters, yes, I am a fan of "old school" V8 BOF trucks (though I'd certainly take a unibody with a V8 too!). In this respect, I love the LX (and LC). Having said this, a supercharged V6 will definitely do, and while I do need a capable AWD/4WD system (for our delightful winters), I don't need true off-road capabilities. The one extra I do seek is height control (which, incidentally, the Q7 offers in the same package as 4-wheel steering). Third row seating, while never used (yet) is a good backup as my children grow.
Diesel would also be an option (more on this at the end...)... [Insert your favorite VW joke here]
FWIW (and given the references to GX/Q7 cross-shopping), I did use to be a "GX guy" (GX470 was our first Lexus, which was rock solid). Five+ years later, I test drove the very first GX460 to arrive at my dealership, and well, my thoughts are captured in the sticky "New GX460!" thread. It was fine, but between the substantial reduction in cargo volume and the price increase (at the time, everything inbound was fully loaded at 67/68k, non-negotiable), the LX caught our eye. It was on the same playing field in terms of technology, was more spacious and noticeably more powerful, and the MSRP difference of a bit less than $20k was closer to $15k on a purchase price basis. The rest is history... To this day (as recently as yesterday), I look at basic dimensions, features and pricing and could not justify touching a GX460. On many/most interior dimensions, Q7 is roomier than LX, and even more so for GX (with the notable exception of rear legroom, I believe).
In terms of some other vehicles:
1. Land Cruiser: Beyond what I shared earlier (and what SW15LS pointed out regarding market conditions, etc.), even if I were coming at this without my own LX, I would still go for the LX. Other than its rarity (LX is still pretty darn rare around here too) and off-road prowess, like I said, a 3/36 warranty is a problem to me at that price point (and ditto for the manual lift gate, no height control [though KDSS is a plus], plastic wood, etc.). Built to last? No doubt, and I respect that. It's just not for me at the current LX-to-LC price difference.
2. GLS: I can appreciate many features of this vehicle and vividly remember checking a GL 550 out at the auto show and comparing it to the pre-refresh LX. I don't know if it's a brand image thing or the memories of my father's MB sedans constantly breaking down, but I just can't get myself to become a Mercedes fan. Acknowledging that they have come a long way, I must admit I still have reliability concerns.
More broadly, as nice as it is, it doesn't seem to offer quite enough additional features (from my perspective) to warrant what wouldn't be a necessary purchase/upgrade, and even in GLS 450 form, you throw in a handful of "essentials", and before you know it, you are pushing $100k. This brings me back to new LX territory and the original conundrum (given our perfectly good 2010 LX).
3. Escalade: I rented one last year and really enjoyed the technology (which at the time was light years ahead of LX pre-refresh). The ride, however, wasn't all that great, and neither was the quality (e.g., popping clock spring and other rattles in a sub-7k-mile vehicle). It does get kudos on the drivetrain, especially given its use and fairly seamless implementation of cylinder deactivation. I had a 2015 1/2 rental, so it also had the 8-speed transmission. The thing had noticeably better mpg than the LX, and while the ride wasn't as refined, it was - overall - very comfortable. I did about 8 hours of driving on the first day (and on a little more than one tank!) and felt fine.
In a nutshell, it is all this - combined with overall size/dimensions, features (cool and practical alike - Virtual Cockpit being one that's both), and Audi's reliability/service climb - that led us to consider the Q7. On a side note, I keep reading that the European twin turbo diesel V8 SQ7 might make it to the US for 2018. What have you all seen?
Last edited by caha14; 11-30-16 at 08:30 AM.
11-28-16 | 08:00 PM
#49
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,709
Likes: 83
From: FL
Sorry for so many posts, but thanks for all the "Audi love", everyone! The ownership experience really has changed over the years.
I owned a '99 SC300 Coupe and it didn't have all the latest technology and convenience of some of the newer cars. There was nothing out there that I really liked, so I went to an Audi dealership and drove various models. I ended up with an '01 A6 4.2 (V8). It was a strong, substantial car, but there were little issues like squeaky brakes, a "miles to empty" readout that would change so quickly I thought the car was leaking gas. I got a nail in a tire, and Audi had to order one from Germany.
The service was terrible. For all my issues the dealership gave me a complete detailing on the car. When I picked it up the car was washed and waxed, but the wheels were filthy. They lost the keys to my car when I was ready to pick it up. The "loaner" I got was the service guy's car, and he asked me to bring it back with a full tank. The A6 was a $53k car (probably $80k in today's money), and I was getting the service of a $20k car. I kept it for 8 months before trading for another Lexus.
I gave Audi another try in 2009 because the A5/S5 was such a good-looking car. I have not had any similar experiences. Although still not up to Lexus service levels, they have gotten their act together. Lexus set the benchmark for all other luxury automakers in terms of service, no doubt.
I owned a '99 SC300 Coupe and it didn't have all the latest technology and convenience of some of the newer cars. There was nothing out there that I really liked, so I went to an Audi dealership and drove various models. I ended up with an '01 A6 4.2 (V8). It was a strong, substantial car, but there were little issues like squeaky brakes, a "miles to empty" readout that would change so quickly I thought the car was leaking gas. I got a nail in a tire, and Audi had to order one from Germany.
The service was terrible. For all my issues the dealership gave me a complete detailing on the car. When I picked it up the car was washed and waxed, but the wheels were filthy. They lost the keys to my car when I was ready to pick it up. The "loaner" I got was the service guy's car, and he asked me to bring it back with a full tank. The A6 was a $53k car (probably $80k in today's money), and I was getting the service of a $20k car. I kept it for 8 months before trading for another Lexus.
I gave Audi another try in 2009 because the A5/S5 was such a good-looking car. I have not had any similar experiences. Although still not up to Lexus service levels, they have gotten their act together. Lexus set the benchmark for all other luxury automakers in terms of service, no doubt.
What does that even mean, what makes Audi service not up to Lexus standards? The one thing I find is Lexus is pretty good at is goodwilling things once in a while if you service your car or buy the car at the dealership you service it at. Other than that I find that when I take my Nissan or Toyota in for service it is the same treatment as my Lexus dealer except the Nissan and Toyota actually have free donuts and drinks, not at my Lexus dealer anymore. One thing I will say is that with Lexus they are pretty good at taking care of little things like my wife just curbed a wheel in our 3 month old IS and I called my salesman and asked for a freebee he is going to have it fixed for free. As far as service though, I've had just as good service at lower tier dealerships.
More broadly, though, every manufacturer has good and bad dealers. In aggregate, though, Lexus has historically excelled over the competition.
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