Sulu

In engineering, a defect is a deviation from the expected. If something unexpected happens, it is a defect. So, if you touch the screen and hope for an immediate response but it does not respond for seconds, that was unexpected and that is a defect. Your normal car consumer is not going to know a slow response from a true failure.

Because these car infotainment systems are still relatively new, and do not operate in a similar fashion from one automotive brand to another, they are still not intuitive. Our desktop / laptop computers are mostly Microsoft Windows-based. Is Windows a particularly good operating system? No! But we have become used to it; Windows has become intuitive. If, and when the car infotainment market settles on one particular interface to the machine (I think that eventually, we will see a convergence toward one similar human-machine interface), then we will come to think of that particular method as intuitive. Until then, what we become used to will be "good" and everything else will be "bad".

As for over-the-air updates, everything comes at a cost and the cost of easy, over-the-air updates is a lack of security. If your infotainment system provider can access your car's electronic systems to update its operating system or other computer software, so can a Russian hacker or that curious high school nerd down the street. Anybody could easily open the back door to your car's computer system and implant some malicious computer program that could take control of your car's Autopilot, for example. Think of the early days of the internet when viruses were rampant; they still are but most of us (at least the informed computer users) now run anti-virus software and firewalls to try prevent unwanted things from getting in the back door.

But getting in the back door of your home computer is not as bad as getting in the back door of your highly-automated Tesla Model S. If that hacker gets into your Tesla through that same over-the-air software update door, he could easily control your car remotely. Remember that cop who drove the Lexus over the cliff because he thought the car was a runaway due to unintended acceleration? That was his fault. The next Tesla to drive into the side of a transport truck could be remotely and deliberately driven into that truck by some social outcast computer nerd.

Toys4RJill

Yes, there are so many other alternatives that are more valuable than CR. The CR reviews are among the worst out there and I really wish they would tender their opinion on the review embargo day. The way they do it now is that they wait until all other reviews are out and then they carefully construct their review around the ones that have been released.

Seems like people want them. Almost all mainstream cars are going that route and people keep buying them.
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mmarshall

People buy them because they have no choice......except to keep their old vehicles or stay in the used-car market.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

CR is ok if you want to buy a used car, say 5+ years old, because then the 'reliability' data is somewhat useful. but new cars? hell no. their actual driving reviews are biased like all reviews, although enthusiast reviews tend to view everything from the viewpoint of how much fun or sporty is it, and CR views everything from the viewpoint of how useful, safe, usable, and reliable is it. CR's another data point, and obviously millions swear by it. the wonderful thing is CR is now no longer a primary source of info because there's now THOUSANDS of thorough reviews online. Alex On Auto's for example, blows away anything CR has ever done. i bet CR's subscriber base is also 55+ and therefore dwindling. i for one won't miss it.

as for the 2 common problems...

as has been said, lack of standardization and familiarization of infotainment systems is a big part of the problem. people forget that there were portable mp3 players before and after the ipod launch, but all non-ipods worked differently, and most were terrible. the ipod changed all that. maybe now with carplay and android auto and car makers rapidly adopting those we'll see much more consistent operation across vehicles. cd's are dead. terrestrial radio is dying (certainly for young drivers). streaming from phones or directly from the car to the internet is the future via common interfaces. in a couple of years CR won't have this issue to whine about. in fairness though, many of the load of infotainment systems ARE bad, with either crappy displays, crappy interfaces, and just SLOOOW due to being cheap with the hardware, but they're all getting markedly better. ford's microsoft and sony systems have gone from foul to decent in the last few years but now ford's also committed to android auto and (apple) carplay.

bucket load of gear transmissions have definitely had programming issues, sometimes due to bugs, sometimes due to DESIGN, like the comment about the tacoma and other toyota/lexus transmissions always wanting to be in a higher gear than is really appropriate to get better mpg at the expense of drivability. but it seems like things are improving...

the world revolves around software...

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

I agree with the standardization bit. Automakers are good at a lot of things, but it has become abundantly clear that software is not one of them. With all of the space that is available behind the screen in my GS, the amount of lag is unacceptable. They have no battery constraints, no real space constraints, and no cooling constraints. That thing should be blazing fast, but instead it pauses when I do something simple like go to or select something on the menu screen

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

it's not software broadly, it's user interface or user experience (ux) which is software and hardware and overall design. and they're not good at it, because almost no one is. apple worked incredibly hard, over decades, to make an iphone relatively easy to use, but i watch people using iphones having NO CLUE what to do for many of what are considered basic things. hardly anything is really 'obvious' except to those that have either grown up with it, or used it a while, or have been trained. i still get confused on some of the icloud settings! android has good/bad points too. i see people unable to use someone else's microwave oven because they all work somewhat differently. does CR ever make big headlines about frustrations with microwave ovens?

expecting people to be able to get into a car they've never 'used' and be able to operate the huge array of features right away, is pretty unrealistic. people asking for buttons and ***** for everything are flat wrong because you'd have possibly hundreds of them which would not be so good either.

and as you say, not picking on lexus, but they were simply too cheap to put acceptably fast hardware in your car. most likely the hardware and software 'budget' vs. specs forced some compromises that really affect usability. happens all the time.

and we all agree that over the air software upgrades are critical to improving usability, fixing bugs, and evolving these things more quickly.

but over time if the car does less and the phone does more, it's a win because people change their phones more often than their cars, although with the growing number of people leasing even that's changing.

UDel

I chalk that up to buyers have no choice if that is what automakers are doing. Automakers are forcing buyers into these touchscreens whether they like them or not, what other choice do buyers have if that is all they are given?

It is obvious many buyers don't like them because they receive so many complaints, Ford even re added buttons because of so many complaints of their touch screen system.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

not sure your point... the market builds what the majority wants. try buying a phone without a touch screen.

Toys4RJill

I agree. I can't imagine there are hoards of people driving around who hate their touchscreen. Touchscreens have been around in the luxo cars for 10 yeara plus.

All I would like to see is those clowns at CR simply release their data and let everyone be the judge to that. And they also need to post their reviews day and date with everyone else.

I know alot of people want to complain about carmaker's and how they don't know anything. But the car companies have more research that all of us. The demand for touchscreens whether they are good or bad is obviously present. And from a design POV it's what is going to sell. A double DIN hard button system is not going to sell for a MY 2017 vehicle.

UDel

Not really, I don't think the majority were asking car makers to do away with buttons and replace them with touchscreens. It is just something most all started doing to try to mimic the popularity/look of smartphones plus I think they save money just putting most features in screens over having high quality buttons and switches for them. I don't mind touchscreens for a virtual keyboard for nav or to access some apps but replacing audio and hvac controls with a touchscreen is extremely annoying and I think just makes it worse.

You can buy plenty of phones with buttons and without a touchscreen, I just got one, but a touchscreen phone makes much more sense over a similar setup in a vehicle because you are going for maximum screen size for something that can fit in your pocket with a smart phone and you are supposed to use smart phones while not doing a activity that requires full concentration like driving.

UDel

What luxury cars have had a touchscreen replacing radio/hvac buttons for 10 years? It has only been pretty recent, like less then 5 years or so that touchscreens have become more popular aside from maybe NAV systems using touchscreens but I am not talking about touchscreen NAV systems.

mmarshall

UDel, you have made some excellent posts....keep up the good work. You are also correct that Lincoln tried electronic controls, and (for good reason) replaced them with conventional *****. Lincoln's transmission push-buttons, in general, are also much easier to use than the E-shifters found in some GM, BMW, and Mercedes models.

mmarshall

New vehicles (or those that have been extensively redesigned) usually take from six months to a year to get enough data for a (preliminary) reliability rating. CR, in their reliability ratings, also lists an asterisk (*) for the rating when it is based on data less than one year old.

I agree Alex is sharp. That's why I posted his take on the new Cadenza. But to compare his reviews to CR is apples and oranges. Two different types of reviews, for two different purposes.


...but, at least in most cases, steering wheels revolve around the human eye.

tex2670

I don't mind touch screens. But you are right--when too many functions are moved to the screen, some functions just become unmanageable, having to navigate thru menus to do something that replaced a simple button touch. Engaging heated seats comes to mind; but I feel like most manufacturers undid this particular ridiculous mistake.

john153

I would just be happy with voice recognition that works! This is my first Lexus and to say that I am disappointed with the voice recognition when trying to use the navigation system, would be an understatement! And, yes, I have completed the voice training, several times. 9 out of 10 times it is grossly wrong, not just a minor glitch but like it is listening to a conversation in a foreign land on a submarine race! I truly expected better from Lexus. Has this been a long standing issue with Lexus?