SW17LS

This is a case of statistics not necessarily telling you what you think they are. They are inferring that people are keeping these cars longer because they last longer. That is not necessarily the case. Could very well be that these are cars that appeal to a buyer looking for longevity like Bit said, or they appeal less to enthusiasts who trade more often, etc.

For instance my statistics are detrimental to these rankings, yet I have never traded a car because of reliability issues. I trade because I get bored.

TRDRAV4

10 years ago, Toyota was pretty much the only ballgame in town selling hybrids. GM didn't sell any hybrids in 2005-6 if I recall. A decade later, its vastly different, and hybrids in general aren't as popular.

Sulu

This makes no sense. With this logic, where are the expensive Lexus LS, Audi A8, BMW 7-Series and MB S-Class. Why would people not want to keep these really expensive cars longer to amortize the costs?

mmarshall

Close.....you get half a cigar. GM had some so-called Chevy Silverado "hybrids" as far back as 2004...but they were not true hybrids in the parallel or even series-sense of hybrids. It was basically just a gas engine with some fancy electronics that shut the engine on and off as the truck came to a stop and/or when the brake pedal was released. More sophisticated hybrids were not to come until later-model Silverados.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

likewise - only my first car i traded because it hated the PA winter - after that, i only traded when i was bored and was itching for something else. the people who bought my trade got a great super reliable vehicle. i miss 'em all.

mmarshall

People who spend upwards of 100K (or more) for a hybrid in the LS, A8, or similar class are not likely to be terribly concerned about how long it might take for the amount of gas saved, over the life of the vehicle, to recuperate the difference between its cost and the cost of a comparable non-hybrid version. That is much more likely to be a concern with relatively low-priced hybrids like the Prius and C-Max.

Sulu

I am trying to dispel the myth that we pay thousands of dollars in premium to buy a hybrid to save money on fuel, so that if fuel prices are low, we have to keep the car longer, in order to "pay it off".

By that logic, anybody who pays a premium for a car will keep it longer, just to "pay it off". Someone who buys a Camry V6 should keep it longer than a Camry 4-cylinder, just to "pay it off".

By that logic, if someone pays $40,000 to buy a Toyota Highlander and keeps it 10 years to "pay it off", then somebody who spends $120,000 to buy a Mercedes-Benz S-Class should be keeping it 3x as long -- 30 years -- to "pay it off". Yet, we do not see ANY luxury flagships on this list.

Obviously, this "pay it off" idea is nothing but a myth.

Toys4RJill

I don't know what you are really trying to say as you have made it sound so complicated.

I don't know if you can really compare mainstream hybrid ownership and flagship luxury cars. Buyers who are purchasing a Prius vs a S-class are completely different. As you start to get up in price point for cars, things become more complicated for the high end customer. S-Class, 7 series, and A8 owners likely have multiple cars and leasing is much more common at the higher end.

SW17LS

What he's saying is people don't buy hybrids just to save money on fuel. Pretty simple.

Sulu

I am also saying that we do not keep our cars a long time just to "pay it off". If that was the case, then someone who bought a Lexus LS should keep it longer than someone who bought a Toyota Camry because it would take longer to pay off the LS than the Camry.

Obviously, there are many people in Car Chat who continue to believe that people buy hybrids just to save money on fuel. There are many reasons why we buy hybrids and "saving money on fuel" is low down on the list.

SW17LS

Exactly, it's part and parcel of the same thing, "saving money" and "extracting value" aren't the considerations.

Toys4RJill

I agree that there are lots of owners that do not keep cars "just to pay it off" . Hybrid or non-hybrid, owning a car for the long period of time is a much smarter move than leasing and keeping payments going over time. Whether it is a cheaper car or a large size luxury car, its "pays" off better to keep the car long term.

If someone is purchasing a Lexus ESh over a ES350 and they are not trying keep it long term, I would say they are pretty foolish in not getting the ES350 from the start.

SW17LS

Everybody has different priorities, to say what one person does is "foolish" because it isn't what you would do is ridiculous. What if somebody prefers the feel and silent running of the hybrid? What if somebody prefers the idea that their vehicle consumes less fuel and pollutes less than a fully ICE vehicle?

Not everybody makes every decision based on financial motives. Nor should they.

For instance I know that driving a car for a long time is cheaper than leasing all the time. However, I enjoy new cars and I prefer to lease new cars...how am I being "foolish". I'm living my life you live yours.

Sulu

Thank you! This is what I keep saying.

If everybody made car-buying decisions based purely on financial motives, nobody would buy luxury brands.

There is the school of thought that you BUY only what will appreciate in value, and you RENT / LEASE what depreciates in value.

By that thought, you should lease cars and buy your home.

Toys4RJill

Does not apply to cars. Leasing vs renting vs buying a home are three completely different things.

Leasing a car is absolutely one of the worst financial decisions you can possibly make.