coolsaber

whats the difference?

Toys4RJill

A BMW e530 or a Prius Prime are Hybrid electrics. The Prius is just hybrid. I think. No?

RXSF

I would consider a hybrid electric to be an electric car with small range that reverts to being a hybrid car when the battery is dead.

mmarshall

Priuses come in several different versions. Some are normal parallel-type hybrids, which run on either gas or electric as battery-charge and climate-control conditions dictate. The long-range Prius Plug-in (now known as the Prius Prime) is what is called an Extended-Range Hybrid, which has a higher-technology battery/electrical-storage system, a more efficient electric motor, and a small gas engine to recharge the battery when needed. The Plug-in model, unlike a regular Prius, can be charged overnight (or in several hours) from a 110V/220V electrical outlet....it does not need the gas engine for recharging. However, a full-electric car, which is not included in the current (no pun intended) Prius line-up, runs only on electrical re-charging...no gas engine. A full-electric is not considered a hybrid.

Sulu

What we have come to commonly call a hybrid vehicle is, in fact, a hybrid electric vehicle.

A hybrid vehicle is any vehicle that has 2 or more power sources, one of which is usually an internal combustion engine and the other may be an electric motor (which is the most common). There are other second power sources and one possibility is a hydraulic motor (in a hybrid hydraulic vehicle), in which wasted energy drives a pump to pressurize and store hydraulic fluid. That hydraulic fluid is then used to power a hydraulic motor in place of, or to add power to, the ICE.

Toys4RJill

Looks like you are correct. An ESh is an HEV.

mmarshall

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, today, that all of the gas/electric hybrids today are parallel rather than series-hybrids. I know that Honda, at one time, tried marketing the Insight, Civic Hybrid, and (possibly) the original Accord Hybrids as well, with a series-hybrid arrangement (IMA, or Integrated Motor Assist) that basically just used the electric motor as a back-up for the gas engine and to re-start the gas engine after it shut off.....it could not run on the electrics alone. Those early Honda series-systems were jerky, refined, and, compared to Toyota systems, inefficient...it is no wonder they are not in production any longer.

mmarshall

So then, fuel-cell vehicles like the Toyota Mirai and Honda FCV (which have two power-sources, combining a compressed-hydrogen-powered fuel-cell with an electric motor), are not considered hybrids?

SW17LS

No...they're considered fuel cell vehicles.

Sulu

A series hybrid is what is used on diesel-electric trains. A (small) internal combustion engine spins a generator to produce electricity and that electricity is used to recharge a battery or drive an electric motor; the electric motor -- and only the electric motor -- drives the vehicle. There is no mechanical connection between the primary power source (the ICE) and the wheels. Because the ICE only has to generate electricity but not drive the vehicle, it does not have to be very powerful (great torque is not needed) and can be very small.

A parallel hybrid is a hybrid vehicle in which the ICE or the secondary motor can power the vehicle (one or the other), or both together can power the vehicle. There is only one electric motor / generator so it can drive the vehicle or recharge the battery but not both simultaneously. Examples include any electric-motor assist hybrids, such as the Honda IMA, the GM Belt Alternator Starter (BAS) Hybrid, and the hybrid systems that the Germans (BMW, MB, and VW / Audi) and Koreans (Hyundai and Kia) now use, which sandwiches the electric motor between the engine and transmission, and replacing the torque converter. In terms of the number of automakers using this type of hybrid, it is the most popular.

A series-parallel or power-split hybrid is the type that Toyota and Ford use, what Honda uses in the current Accord Hybrid, and what GM uses in the Volt (and badge-engineered cousins) and the new Chevy Malibu Hybrid. It has 2 electric motors / generators, one of which drives the vehicle, the other generates electricity (even as the other motor drives the vehicle, as in a series hybrid) or assists in driving the vehicle, and there is a mechanical connection between the ICE and the drive wheels so that ICE may drive the vehicle or add power to the electric motor as it drives the wheels. In terms of numbers sold, this is probably the most popular (thanks to the popularity of the Prius).

Sulu

Technically, they are still considered to be hybrids, I believe, since there are 2 sources of power: the fuel cell and the battery (even though both produce electricity).

If I am not mistaken, the Toyota Mirai uses Toyota's Power-Split Device (PSD) transmission but the fuel cell stack replaces the ICE. I do remember reading that Toyota designed their PSD to be able to run with different types of power sources (ICE, fuel cell, etc.).

SW17LS

They're not classified as "hybrids" though. They're considered an entirely different subset of alternative fuel vehicles.

Fizzboy7

No one calls them HEV's. Society and the auto press calls cars like the ES "hybrids." I see no reason to try to change the name.

peteharvey

I thought a hybrid is just something made from two.
Hence gasoline-electric hybrids, because mechanical energy comes from both gasoline internal combustion engine, and battery powered electric motors.

A hybrid internal combustion engine vehicle is implying that the ICE is the main element of the two eg a tiny battery traditional & current generation Prius.
While a hybrid electric vehicle is implying that the electric driveline is the main element of the two, eg a big Lion battery Benz C350e, a BMW 330e etc.

With such small battery capacity and small weak electric motors, I wouldn't have thought that a Camry Hybrid or an ES300h was a hybrid electric vehicle.
Hybrid electric vehicle is more appropriate for C350e and 330e etc, which have much bigger batteries, more performance, and longer electric range.

Traditional hybrids like Prius and ES300h are good, but the new German PHEV's & Toyota Prius Prime with big lion batteries, and much more powerful electric motors are even better, and bridge the gap to the full electric vehicle even more.


Meanwhile I wouldn't have thought that a hydrogen fuel cell powered electric vehicle is a hybrid, because only the electric motor propels the vehicle.
The hydrogen fuel cell generator converts hydrogen to electricity, while the electric motor converts electricity via magnetic energy to mechanical energy.
A traditional conventional internal combustion engine converts gasoline to heat & expanding gases which are converted to mechanical energy.
If a HFCEV is a hybrid, then an ICEV must be a hybrid too!


Another factor to consider is that we can't be too picky with terms.
For example, technically an SUV is a truck ladder-based chassis body construction, eg a Toyota Landcruiser.
While a crossover is a sedan monocoque skin-stressed chassis body construction eg a Toyota Highlander.
However, in reality both terms are used interchangeably.

In a similar way, a hybrid electric, or a hybrid gasoline powered internal combustion engine is pretty much the same thing with a predominance of one over the other...
_

Sulu

Let's not get into a fight about definitions.

The formal engineering definition of a hybrid vehicle is one that may run on 2 or more different sources of power, one of which is usually an internal combustion engine (gasoline- or diesel-powered piston engine), since that has been the default source of power for motorized vehicles for over a century; the other source(s) may be an electric motor or a hydraulic motor.

Following on this definition, a hybrid electric vehicle is a vehicle in which the second power source is an electric motor. This definition is broad enough to include self-contained hybrid vehicles, like the Prius, Camry Hybrid and ES Hybrid, and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV), like the Volt, the Prius Prime and the German luxury automakers' plug-in hybrids.

It has become understood in context that when we talk about "hybrid vehicle", we mean one with an internal combustion engine and electric motor. Let's leave it at that and not get into a fight and splitting hairs about formal definitions.