SW17LS

As someone who had that generation 4ES...I would say it depends. If "build quality" and "interior material quality" are your most important criteria, I would agree. However, if you care about anything else I would disagree. The modern ES is VASTLY more attractive, has better technology, is better driving than the 4ES. The 4ES was a great car, but it was ugly, it was a yacht devoid of any sort of dynamism at all. My 2010 ES was an upgrade in every way other than interior material quality. It was much more rewarding to drive without loosing ride comfort, it was much more attractive. Tech/feature suite was much better. The current (post refresh) ES is IMHO a much more compelling car.

The Camry of that era was well built, but it was drab and boring to the extreme.

airahcaz

I'd also compare it to the new (redesigned 2019?) ES and assess the cost differential

mmarshall

If, by "Rewarding to Drive" you are thinking in classic enthusiast terms, meaning more responsive steering and suspension, then I'd agree. The ES, though, was never intended to be a sports sedan.....that what the IS and GS are for. A lot of people, me included, simply like soundproofed, easy-riding cocoons. The 4ES was so excellent at what it did because it offered a lot of the LS's comfort (not all, of course, by any means) at half the price. The designers did make one flaw, though, on the 4ES.....long, sweep-back teardrop headlights, running halfway up the sides of the hood, that were totally out of character with the rest of the car....I don't know what the designers were thinking.

It basically drove, at a family-car price, like the luxury cars of that era did...smooth, quiet, and cocoon-like. In fact, from what I remember, because of the taller-profile tires of that era, it was actually smoother over some bumps than my current Lacrosse LOL. The interior was durable materials.....but, yes, I agree.....compared to today's wood-tone and chrome Camry interiors, somewhat blah-looking. There's no denying the build quality of that third-generation Camry, though...I still see them here on D.C.-area roads every day.

SW17LS

That’s just it, my 2010 5ES rode just as well as my 4ES, but also handled and drove much better, and was overall a much more enjoyable car to drive. I also feel that way about my LS460 (and my LS400) vs my LS430. A car doesn’t have to be a pig to drive to ride really well, especially nowadays.

Remember I also like very quiet soft riding cars. The ES remains that. It’s not a sport sedan, but the versions after the 4ES were just much more enjoyable to drive, coming from a person who had both.

The ES still offers a lot of the LS comfort for half the price. That hasn’t changed.

sorptd

2018 Camry Crash test results. They basically aced every criteria & sub criteria that is tested by IIHS.

Source:
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/veh...y-4-door-sedan

Toys4RJill

The ES has gotten better with each new gen. It's just a different time now and buyers tastes have changed. The 4th gen ES was indeed the best riding of recent memory. No doubt. But the 07 model got a huge HP upgrade and a very good performance increase. The newest ES now has a sense of contemporary modern style and a wide range of interior options. I will say, the current ES needs the 4th generations Adaptive Variable Suspension to smooth out or soften the ever so slightly. Sad, because my recent test drive of a new Buick Lacrosse blew the ES in terms of ride quality out of the water.

Toys4RJill

That is great news to hear.

mk416

Went to check out the new Camry the other day, and dare I say this car feels more Lexus than a Lexus does...?

-I like the newly redesigned dash/console compartments, it definitely feels more stylish than the old "your mom's Camry" look and feel.
-Front end is basically a watered down version of spindle grille front end Lexus currently has, but the headlights are very sharp. They remind me of the batch of IS in 2017 as opposed to 2018.
-Rear shares the similar design language as the LS500, but I have to say that XLE version of rear looks fantastic with the quad-tipped exhausts (although I think only two of those are actually functional).
-Great pricing point for what you get. The XLE I priced out was at a comfortable 27K for all the options (minus those horrendous "custom" wheels for 2,999.00)

The only thing I really still wanted is Apple/Android interface, which was not available (at least) on the vehicle I saw at the dealership.

airahcaz

Agree, so just on this, I'm confused with the Entune options, only the highest V6 model has integrated Nav? so the "connected Nav" uses cell phone data? If so, I'm screwed when crossing the border to Canada, am I correct there?

mk416

Was in a hurry that day, so I didn't get to play with the car at all. However, according to the website, if you choose the navigation package, you get to have the Entune 3.0 (which the car uses your phone's data via The Scout) and you also have the built-in "Dynamic Navigation" system.

I don't think you can separate those out, at least not on the build page.

airahcaz

there are different levels of Entune

Johnhav430

Out of curiosity, are these cars on the lot? Or back-ordered? I remember trying to buy a 1997 Camry, and it was like you had a better chance of getting Super Bowl tickets....

pbm317

They're on the lot.

Toys4RJill

Yes that is the case. Distribution of cars is not like it was in the past. For a car like the Camry, they make a significant build up of inventory before the car actually gets released. There is an incentive for Toyota to do this as the prices of cars won't exceed MSRP which just annoys customers long term.

mk416

Like what level are we talking about? I see that you can get Entune 3.0, but the site didn't specify if I can choose older version of that or not.