2018 Camry revealed
10-16-17, 02:12 PM
#616
Lexus Test Driver
Had to take my LS in for Paintless Dent Repair and was given a 2017 Camry SE as a rental for the day. After about 50 miles behind the wheel I feel it is an okay car.
The SE looks sharp and is roomy inside. The 18-inch tires and new TNGA platform combine to produce the best handling Camry I've ever driven. Taking sweeping turns and clover onramps put a smile on my face. However, to maintain the flat cornering the suspension can be jarring at times. The example I drove has the 4-cyclinder and is quite buzzy, but power is adequate. The car is a little noisy from what I would expect for a Camry. Moderate wind noise and significant tire noise intrudes into the cabin. The lower parts of the dash also utilize then plastics and you feel significant flex when pulling on covers over the USB and power ports. The window switches are feel cheap and stiff. Surprisingly, with only 1350 miles on the car, there was a fluttering nous above my head that only stopped when I pushed up against the headliner.
Overall, the car drives smaller than it is but I expected the level of refinement to be higher in this competiive segment. It seems the quality was higher in past Camry models. A decent car but not really compelling. I haven't experienced the competition but just expected more from the once dominant Camry name.
The SE looks sharp and is roomy inside. The 18-inch tires and new TNGA platform combine to produce the best handling Camry I've ever driven. Taking sweeping turns and clover onramps put a smile on my face. However, to maintain the flat cornering the suspension can be jarring at times. The example I drove has the 4-cyclinder and is quite buzzy, but power is adequate. The car is a little noisy from what I would expect for a Camry. Moderate wind noise and significant tire noise intrudes into the cabin. The lower parts of the dash also utilize then plastics and you feel significant flex when pulling on covers over the USB and power ports. The window switches are feel cheap and stiff. Surprisingly, with only 1350 miles on the car, there was a fluttering nous above my head that only stopped when I pushed up against the headliner.
Overall, the car drives smaller than it is but I expected the level of refinement to be higher in this competiive segment. It seems the quality was higher in past Camry models. A decent car but not really compelling. I haven't experienced the competition but just expected more from the once dominant Camry name.
10-16-17, 02:13 PM
#617
Across the range, new President Akio Toyoda wants his cars to have more spirited styling & more spirited dynamics marked by a firmer ride, and greater NVH.
I'll be holding off my purchases for a while...
I'll be holding off my purchases for a while...
10-16-17, 02:55 PM
#619
Racer
I did really like the supportive seats and secure bolstering too. The turn signal sound is extremely annoying for me though. It literally sounds like a metronome app.
I didn't detect any torque-steer and the steering on the SE is pretty direct. Honestly, I can't feel a difference between this FWD Camry and RWD LS. Maybe the characteristics of FWD/RWD is masked by electronic nannies or I just don't drive it hard enough to break traction.
Also, for a brand new Camry design, I wish the UI was more responsive. The lag isn't as bad as the LS but there is still a slight delay which makes me wonder if they're using the same CPUs as on the Apollo spacecrafts. I am used to the speed of my smartphone.
I didn't detect any torque-steer and the steering on the SE is pretty direct. Honestly, I can't feel a difference between this FWD Camry and RWD LS. Maybe the characteristics of FWD/RWD is masked by electronic nannies or I just don't drive it hard enough to break traction.
Also, for a brand new Camry design, I wish the UI was more responsive. The lag isn't as bad as the LS but there is still a slight delay which makes me wonder if they're using the same CPUs as on the Apollo spacecrafts. I am used to the speed of my smartphone.
10-16-17, 03:06 PM
#620
Did the FWD Camry have power oversteer like the RWD LS?
Squeezing the throttle around a corner makes the tail come out gently, such that less steering input is required.
In my experience, FWD Camry and ES has bags of power understeer, with the front end ploughing straight ahead, requiring a lot more turns of the steering wheel to negotiate a corner under power.
Since 2005, I have always found Lexus infotainment a bit laggy; needs a quicker processor, or more RAM etc.
Squeezing the throttle around a corner makes the tail come out gently, such that less steering input is required.
In my experience, FWD Camry and ES has bags of power understeer, with the front end ploughing straight ahead, requiring a lot more turns of the steering wheel to negotiate a corner under power.
Since 2005, I have always found Lexus infotainment a bit laggy; needs a quicker processor, or more RAM etc.
10-16-17, 03:19 PM
#621
Racer
Did the FWD Camry have power oversteer like the RWD LS?
Squeezing the throttle around a corner makes the tail come out gently, such that less steering input is required.
Since 2005, I have always found Lexus infotainment a bit laggy; needs a quicker processor, or more RAM etc.
Squeezing the throttle around a corner makes the tail come out gently, such that less steering input is required.
Since 2005, I have always found Lexus infotainment a bit laggy; needs a quicker processor, or more RAM etc.
My brief experience in the new Camry is not all negative and the SE is funner than past Camry models I have driven. However, overall, I would rather take the money spent on an SE and find a used luxury model. I am probably spoiled by the LS and just expect all cars to be better, but my coworkers 2003 Camry, with 300K miles, seems quieter and more refined than the 2018 SE.
10-16-17, 03:25 PM
#622
The Canry SE has a nice weight in the steering, definitely not the overboosted steering in Camry models of yore (not sure about non-SE models). There really is a lack of understeer and it doesn't feel like a FWD car. The paddle shifters are just for show and are slow to react, especially for downshift.
My brief experience in the new Camry is not all negative and the SE is funner than past Camry models I have driven. However, overall, I would rather take the money spent on an SE and find a used luxury model. I am probably spoiled by the LS and just expect all cars to be better, but my coworkers 2003 Camry, with 300K miles, seems quieter and more refined than the 2018 SE.
My brief experience in the new Camry is not all negative and the SE is funner than past Camry models I have driven. However, overall, I would rather take the money spent on an SE and find a used luxury model. I am probably spoiled by the LS and just expect all cars to be better, but my coworkers 2003 Camry, with 300K miles, seems quieter and more refined than the 2018 SE.
They don't just differ in engine NVH, they also differ in suspension NVH.
I want to murder Akio.
One thing I notice though.
You seem to have tested the SE Sports Edition which is supposed to be sporty?
The real test will be how the LE Luxury Edition rides....
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 10-16-17 at 05:44 PM.
10-16-17, 07:05 PM
#623
Lexus Fanatic
10-16-17, 07:22 PM
#624
Lexus Test Driver
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda...arison-review/
Not biased at all, go figure.
10-16-17, 07:33 PM
#625
Lexus Fanatic
Exactly, well said. One should only spend their money on things they like and believe in. Here's a suggestion for an alternative from Motor Trend:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda...arison-review/
Not biased at all, go figure.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/honda...arison-review/
Not biased at all, go figure.
In that class, I'd also check out a Mazda6, if you want a chassis and steering with nice driving-dynamics. I drove Mazda sedans myself for a number of years...though not particularly powerful, they are generally reliable products. The Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion are are also darn nice products in most ways, but come with Mickey-Mouse 1.5L turbo fours as the base engines. The Fusion Sport, however, has a healthy turbo V6.
10-16-17, 07:52 PM
#627
Lexus Champion
Lol. It's meant to make a BMW driver scared of taking on the Camry and passing it. I am Camry, hear me roar.
The 6 is wonderful balanced car with beautiful materials and craftsmanship. They didn't launch their Amati brand so they've poured their dollars into making their products very comparable to luxury brands. The thing is they only have a 2.5 engine. There was a 3.7 engine previously and then they wanted a diesel, that's gone.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
In that class, I'd also check out a Mazda6, if you want a chassis and steering with nice driving-dynamics. I drove Mazda sedans myself for a number of years...though not particularly powerful, they are generally reliable products.
10-16-17, 08:12 PM
#628
Lexus Fanatic
Lol. It's meant to make a BMW driver scared of taking on the Camry and passing it. I am Camry, hear me roar.
The 6 is wonderful balanced car with beautiful materials and craftsmanship. They didn't launch their Amati brand so they've poured their dollars into making their products very comparable to luxury brands. The thing is they only have a 2.5 engine. There was a 3.7 engine previously and then they wanted a diesel, that's gone.
The 6 is wonderful balanced car with beautiful materials and craftsmanship. They didn't launch their Amati brand so they've poured their dollars into making their products very comparable to luxury brands. The thing is they only have a 2.5 engine. There was a 3.7 engine previously and then they wanted a diesel, that's gone.
10-16-17, 10:05 PM
#629
(1) I think it is more helpful to TMC to be honest and tell it as it is.
I do not believe in being a Toyota/Lexus fanatic and sweeping it under the carpet, and turning a blind eye, and just pretend that 5LS styling etc is okay when it is criticized by so many people.
(2) Normally I try to give "feedback" to TMC to rectify the situation first, because I believe that this method is more helpful to Toyota/Lexus than just ignoring Toyota/Lexus products, staying silent, and moving onto another marque.
My feedback:
(i) If it ain't broke, why fix it?
(ii) Why not just be TMC? Why pretend to be Maserati?
Many years ago, Akio was quoted as saying that he wanted TMC to have inspired styling & inspired dynamics like Maserati and a number of other European marques; at that time, he actually raced a Maserati himself at the Nurburgring if I remember correctly.
In the end, if Calty Studios persist in styling cars like Prius, Mirai & 5LS etc, then I will certainly switch to another marque.
For example, I spent 17 years with Microsoft Windows Mobile & Windows Phone OS, and this year I had to switch over to Google Android OS.
Wife will switch from iPhone to Android next year.
Just me, but I'm glad Genesis has a lovely G80 to replace my 4GS.
It's good to have competition from Genesis.
I wish Acura & Infiniti could give Lexus more competition too.
However, back to Camry.
This Camry he drove was SE sports?
Camry LE luxury may be much more refined???
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 10-17-17 at 01:15 AM.
10-16-17, 10:16 PM
#630
Funny you say that, because I find that my receptionist's husband's old 2001-06 Camry 3.0 V6 is smoother, quieter and more refined than my receptionist's 2012-17 Camry 3.5 V6.
They don't just differ in engine NVH, they also differ in suspension NVH.
I want to murder Akio.
One thing I notice though.
You seem to have tested the SE Sports Edition which is supposed to be sporty?
The real test will be how the LE Luxury Edition rides....
.
They don't just differ in engine NVH, they also differ in suspension NVH.
I want to murder Akio.
One thing I notice though.
You seem to have tested the SE Sports Edition which is supposed to be sporty?
The real test will be how the LE Luxury Edition rides....
.
Its just that Toyota V6 engine, in the Camry anyways has the most absolute garbage engine note I've ever heard. Makes a giant sucking sound when you step on it, sounds like an overpowered vacume cleaner. Compare it to Toyota's other six cylinder, the inline six JZ family, it isn't quite as smooth, but man the JZ engines make all kinds of awesome sounds. The growl when you rev up a 2JZ-GE engine past 3500, man it just sounds fantastic, even the burble from the stock exhaust is just great and a very unique sound IMO. Toyota's V6 engines, like most other V6 engines, just don't have that sound.
Getting back to the new Camry, I hope they fixed the sound on the V6 models. If its a "sporty car" with a powerful engine, it damn well better make the right sounds.