swajames

Well doesn't kind of reinforce the bigger point that it's good for consumers if there is more investment in infrastructure? That investment could be in more public charging points or adding hydrogen pumps to existing gas stations. Investment in one or both would open up to you the choices we have here in our part of California.

Toys4RJill

I never said that hydrogen won't have pricing issues. It's just different. Local municipalities are not going add more electricity capacity of electric power. What they will do is add more costs to those using it. Once demand hits peak, the hydrogen alternative will be there for a lower cost. Fuel cell cars will win.

LeX2K

You seem to think hydrogen comes from a magic pipeline. I'll spell it out for you, we either use electricity to separate hydrogen from water, or use fossil fuels and again use electricity to extract the hydrogen from whatever source. Both methods are vastly less efficient than simply charging batteries directly.

Now if you're only argument is government will make electricity prices skyrocket in relation to more BEVs on the road, it's possible. But this would be government directly disincentivizing the use of clean transportation and I don't think that will happen in the long term. And even if they do so, the same electricity generation used to charge the BEVs will also be used to refine hydrogen, yet you're saying hydrogen will get cheaper but electricity to the consumer will get more expensive.

That is price manipulation and probably illegal.

As for investment in hydrogen infrastructure a giant waste of money and resources. The grid is already there it is being upgraded incrementally. And how many times do I have to say it, electricity is used to refine hydrogen.

Toys4RJill

You are starting to come around

mmarshall

Well, it's true that at least some electricity is necessary for the production of hydrogen....remember the water-electrolysis lab-experiments you did in chemistry class, separating the oxygen from the hydrogen at the two terminals? And the earth's surface is 70% water...there is certainly no lack of that, though much of it is salt water and requires de-salinization first. And, last, don't forger that in the early days of aviation, in many countries, hydrogen was used on a significant scale to fill balloons, blimps, and airships, because the U.S. had a virtual monopoly on the supply of much safer, non-flammable (but less-efficient as a lifting-gas) helium.

RXSF

Swajames, do you charge at the San Bruno hydrogen station then? That is the only one within the true San Francisco Bay Area

LeX2K

Jupiter is almost all pure hydrogen, problem solved right? Breaking a molecular bond takes energy, a lot of it. Because of this currently 95%+ of all hydrogen production is by steam reformation using hydrocarbons.
What could this possibly have to do with a hydrogen fuel cell car.

mmarshall

Has that even been determined? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that NASA (or any other organization) has actually landed a probe there, as they have on some other planets. NASA, however, did (and does) use fuel-cell technology in its operations.

My point was that pure hydrogen can, and at one time was, produced in significant quantities (as in early aviation), despite the cost of the electricity involved. Now, the cost and ease of pressurizing it, on a large scale, to 20,000 PSI for fuel-cell tanks, though......that may be another matter, and it will be interesting to see how that one plays out.

swajames

i actually have three right near my home and office. The one I usually use is right by San Jose airport and is a few blocks from my office plus I live close to the Campbell and Saratoga stations. They are all onsite at regular gas stations.