Lexus is moving away from sedans and toward SUVs
02-04-17, 05:39 PM
#31
Not true at all. LC, LX, and GX all sells about 2500 a month. That is not a niche. Add in Toyota 4RUNNER and the Sequoia and you are looking at about 15k plus in Toyota body on frame sales per month. What you are not understanding is that the SUVs from Porsche and Audi sell to "their" brand while the Lexus and Toyota SUVs sell to "their" brand. None of the Lexus SUVs compete with Porsche, and why would they want that? That is not the Lexus SUVs brand. As for MB, Audi, again those brands sell to "their" customers. A Toyota body on frame SUV is not for everyone, but at the same time a RR SUV is not for everyone either.
02-04-17, 05:48 PM
#32
Lexus Champion
These days there isn't really all that much difference between a sedan and SUV in terms of driving experience. Aside from a few remaining offroad oriented SUVs, most crossovers have pretty much the same driving dynamics as the respective sedans that their chassis were based on. Its hard to even make a case for a sedan at all anymore, especially when it comes to premium brands where money isn't a big issue.
That being said, Lexus is the only premium brand that has 3 sedans with proper RWD chassis, but all of their SUVs are either pedestrian FWD platforms or antiquated BOF chassis - but their target buyers don't seem to care or even know the difference.
That being said, Lexus is the only premium brand that has 3 sedans with proper RWD chassis, but all of their SUVs are either pedestrian FWD platforms or antiquated BOF chassis - but their target buyers don't seem to care or even know the difference.
02-04-17, 06:04 PM
#33
Crossover utility vehicles are just the current trend. Forty, fifty years ago, the station wagon was fashionable; then came the minivan. After a 20 year run, the minivan was replaced by utility vehicles, first small body-on-frame vehicles and now car-based ("crossover") utility vehicles. Some would argue that the current CUV is not much more than a station wagon on stilts, but Americans do not like the term "station wagon" so these wagon-type vehicles cannot be called station wagons.
02-04-17, 06:15 PM
#34
Lexus Champion
Lexus isn't moving away from sedans at all. They have not discontinued one. They have added the NX, RC, and LC. I'd say they are filling out their line-up to match market trends. Smaller crossovers are hot, so they need those to stay high. The rest, especially the ES and IS, will continue to move fine.
Despite being one of the very first luxury auto brands to introduce a car-based "crossover" utility vehicle (the RX), Lexus has been very slow in recognizing the trend of utility vehicles, as BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Infiniti filled every available niche available with CUVs. After finally introducing the NX compact CUV, it seems Lexus is now rushing to catch up and fill up available niches.
02-04-17, 06:24 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
I disagree. The Land Cruiser and LX are tier 1 premium products. Audi does have anything that remotely compares to a LX570. Neither does BMW. But Mercedes does. Cadillac has a tier 1 SUV in the Escalade that goes head to head with the LX570. Range Rover as well. It's all relative as the buyers at this end are different in what they are looking for. You don't see that? A Porsche buyer is not going to buy an SUV from Lexus, different needs, the LX offers a V8, real full time 4WD with low range, a Torsen diff, a factory installed hitch, seven seats....Totally different than what the top end Porchse SUV. Like I said earlier, Toyota knows exactly what a buyer wants in the LX. The LX and Land Cruiser has been serving their customers way longer than Audi, BMW and Porsche have been making SUVs.
02-04-17, 06:45 PM
#36
I disagree. The Land Cruiser and LX are tier 1 premium products. Audi does have anything that remotely compares to a LX570. Neither does BMW. But Mercedes does. Cadillac has a tier 1 SUV in the Escalade that goes head to head with the LX570. Range Rover as well. It's all relative as the buyers at this end are different in what they are looking for. You don't see that? A Porsche buyer is not going to buy an SUV from Lexus, different needs, the LX offers a V8, real full time 4WD with low range, a Torsen diff, a factory installed hitch, seven seats....Totally different than what the top end Porchse SUV. Like I said earlier, Toyota knows exactly what a buyer wants in the LX. The LX and Land Cruiser has been serving their customers way longer than Audi, BMW and Porsche have been making SUVs.
02-04-17, 06:52 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
Mercedes and RR both offer niche SUVs that rival the LX in offroad capabilities, but they also sell SUVs that rival Porsche in performance. There was a time when Lexus was considered a tier 1 premium brand, pretty much on the same level as MB and BMW, but these days they are far behind, and the gap between tier 1 and Lexus just keeps getting wider and wider.
As for the performance of Porsche, that is not what makes the Lexus brand as an SUV. What Lexus offers and what Porsche offers are two different things at a high price point.
02-05-17, 07:44 AM
#40
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by Htony
Not around Bimmer X5 or Audi Q7 Sports I used to drive, LOL!
02-05-17, 08:18 AM
#41
Not exactly fair to compare X5 to M3, but I can tell you that X5 has very similar driving dynamics compared to similarly equipped 5 series. In fact, X5 equipped with M sport package will have better dynamics than 5 series without it. And X5M certainly holds it's own against the M5. Of course BMW SUVs are not all things to all people, and not a replacement for true sport cars, but they have plenty to replace sport sedans between X3 35i with m sport package, X4 m40i, X5/X6 5.0 with M sport, X5M and X6M. And on the other side of the pond they even have X5 M50d.
02-05-17, 09:26 AM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by Och
Not exactly fair to compare X5 to M3, but I can tell you that X5 has very similar driving dynamics compared to similarly equipped 5 series. In fact, X5 equipped with M sport package will have better dynamics than 5 series without it. And X5M certainly holds it's own against the M5. Of course BMW SUVs are not all things to all people, and not a replacement for true sport cars, but they have plenty to replace sport sedans between X3 35i with m sport package, X4 m40i, X5/X6 5.0 with M sport, X5M and X6M. And on the other side of the pond they even have X5 M50d.
02-05-17, 09:41 AM
#43
Lexus has a full and relatively fresh sedan portfolio. I wouldn't say they are "moving away" from sedans, but like all automakers they know that R&D should be biased more toward future SUVs.
I'd say the GS and ES are getting long in the tooth, but it's not like they are easily outclassed by the competition. They still hold their own pretty well and offer an excellent value proposition. The current LS is like a 5 year old stale loaf of bread; but from what I've seen of the next gen LS, it does appear that Lexus is committed to pushing the buck forward and making some solid sedans.
I'd say the GS and ES are getting long in the tooth, but it's not like they are easily outclassed by the competition. They still hold their own pretty well and offer an excellent value proposition. The current LS is like a 5 year old stale loaf of bread; but from what I've seen of the next gen LS, it does appear that Lexus is committed to pushing the buck forward and making some solid sedans.
02-05-17, 10:05 AM
#44
Of course not as the M3 isn't really a sport sedan, but a true sports car. But for people that are buying run of the mill sedans or even sporty sedans, there are many SUVs to chose from that drive just as well while providing countless advantages.
02-05-17, 10:20 AM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
I agree, no SUV is going to touch a car. I am not sure how any of the BMW or other high performance SUVs applies to the Lexus models at the top end. Lexus does their luxury very well and satisifes their target market well.
The current LS is closer to 11 years old stale. But the new one is going to do well, it's going to be distinctly Japanese compared to the past LS models that were an alternative to a German car. The new LS probably won't hit their past sales targets, but it do well for the Lexus brand.
The current LS is closer to 11 years old stale. But the new one is going to do well, it's going to be distinctly Japanese compared to the past LS models that were an alternative to a German car. The new LS probably won't hit their past sales targets, but it do well for the Lexus brand.