Is Lexus Becoming The Next Acura?
03-05-17, 09:54 AM
#301
Lexus Test Driver
Well that's a worthy endevour, but, and I say this anecdotally, I would guess that BMW and Audi probably attract more young luxury buyers than Lexus, and they are very conservative in style.
However, they offer performance and technology, something Lexus kind of lacks.
Maybe that was their mistake. Instead of concentrating on performance and technology, they zeroed in on polarizing style. Keeping reliability, while upping performance and technology, all boxed into a conservative style might have done better.
However, they offer performance and technology, something Lexus kind of lacks.
Maybe that was their mistake. Instead of concentrating on performance and technology, they zeroed in on polarizing style. Keeping reliability, while upping performance and technology, all boxed into a conservative style might have done better.
03-05-17, 10:32 AM
#302
Lexus Test Driver
Spindle grill will not last - i think next gen of design will be very different.
The whole big grill thing is getting old - the kidney grills on new 7 are obnoxious.
The whole big grill thing is getting old - the kidney grills on new 7 are obnoxious.
03-05-17, 01:03 PM
#303
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
Spindle grill will not last - i think next gen of design will be very different.
The whole big grill thing is getting old - the kidney grills on new 7 are obnoxious.
The whole big grill thing is getting old - the kidney grills on new 7 are obnoxious.
03-05-17, 03:51 PM
#304
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not the betting type, but RNM GS3 may (?) have a point. Acura had to (finally) get rid of their parrot-beaks....even on their bread-and-butter, hot-selling MDX. Lincoln is also getting rid of their weird wing/toothy-grin grilles, and replacing them with the Continental look. So, even given the fact that a number of spindle-grille Lexus products do sell well, that's why I don't think that sales alone determines styling trends.
03-05-17, 04:03 PM
#305
Lexus Fanatic
And the grill on the latest MDX is just as big and bold, IMHO it's less attractive. It's just variations on a theme, MDX sales were great and have been, their grill wasn't an issue.
The point of the spindle grille was to have a uniquely Lexus grill along the lines of the BMW kidney grills or the Audi shield grill. While you will see the shape refined and changed over time as you do with those grills, the basic spindle shape grill isn't going anywhere.
If you look at the spindle it's already gone through 3 generations. The first spindles like you see on my LS, or the previous refresh version LX or ES, GS, IS. The bolder, squarer spindle you see on the RX, NX, latest LX refresh, ES refresh, GS & IS refresh and the new smoother spindle you see on the LC and LS.
The point of the spindle grille was to have a uniquely Lexus grill along the lines of the BMW kidney grills or the Audi shield grill. While you will see the shape refined and changed over time as you do with those grills, the basic spindle shape grill isn't going anywhere.
If you look at the spindle it's already gone through 3 generations. The first spindles like you see on my LS, or the previous refresh version LX or ES, GS, IS. The bolder, squarer spindle you see on the RX, NX, latest LX refresh, ES refresh, GS & IS refresh and the new smoother spindle you see on the LC and LS.
Last edited by SW17LS; 03-05-17 at 04:07 PM.
03-05-17, 05:25 PM
#306
Lexus Test Driver
The new design language is far away, probably when next gen LS comes along so figure 8-10years.
If you look back at the 2013 GS, it looks so dated already - thats the problem with gimmick design features, they dont age well. The refresh for both the GS and IS has been a disaster by making the grille even more cartoonish.
Then you have the new Camry using their own version of the spindle which doesnt help!
Lexus needs to hire a European designer like Hyundai has done. The Genesis cars look great on the road and most Hyundais are quite attractive even the SUVs.
The Japanese culture is very slow to change or give creative control to others outside of their top Japanese managers.
If you look back at the 2013 GS, it looks so dated already - thats the problem with gimmick design features, they dont age well. The refresh for both the GS and IS has been a disaster by making the grille even more cartoonish.
Then you have the new Camry using their own version of the spindle which doesnt help!
Lexus needs to hire a European designer like Hyundai has done. The Genesis cars look great on the road and most Hyundais are quite attractive even the SUVs.
The Japanese culture is very slow to change or give creative control to others outside of their top Japanese managers.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 03-05-17 at 05:30 PM.
03-05-17, 06:04 PM
#307
Lexus Test Driver
Lexus does need a unifying and common design theme across its line. Something that is instantly and immediately recognizable.
I agree that they targeted the correct element, but maybe just scale it back.
Most cars use lights and grills as the most common design theme. The shape of the lights and now the shape of the LEDs. These are elements Audi especially took advantage of early to separate and identify them, although everyone has copied them by now, but it's something that is an identifiable design commodity.
I honestly don't think the spindle shape is bad per se, but it's too big and the nose is starting to stick out way, way too much. That jutting nose makes it look worse and makes the side profile uncomfortable to look at, at least for me.
Car shapes are also important and something that can be adjusted. I personally like the coupe-like appearance of the LS, sans the six windows, but this really comes down to subjective taste. But it too is an element that can and should be loosely shared.
Oh, along with that, they really to focus on performance and technology, without losing sight of the refinement and reliability it currently has.
I agree that they targeted the correct element, but maybe just scale it back.
Most cars use lights and grills as the most common design theme. The shape of the lights and now the shape of the LEDs. These are elements Audi especially took advantage of early to separate and identify them, although everyone has copied them by now, but it's something that is an identifiable design commodity.
I honestly don't think the spindle shape is bad per se, but it's too big and the nose is starting to stick out way, way too much. That jutting nose makes it look worse and makes the side profile uncomfortable to look at, at least for me.
Car shapes are also important and something that can be adjusted. I personally like the coupe-like appearance of the LS, sans the six windows, but this really comes down to subjective taste. But it too is an element that can and should be loosely shared.
Oh, along with that, they really to focus on performance and technology, without losing sight of the refinement and reliability it currently has.
Last edited by Rhambler; 03-05-17 at 06:11 PM.
03-05-17, 06:04 PM
#308
Lexus Champion
Acura's newest grill isn't a beak at all - it's a diamond pentagon. An evolution back to the "shield" days. Acura's designers got the word about five years ago that the "beak" had to be walked back, hence the emergency reboot for 2013 to change what they had been planning. Even five years ago Acura's then design chief said that they went "overboard" with the beak.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/19/n...tle-overboard/
Obviously that guy moved on and now it's Jon Ikeda who's in the top spot. He was the guy who brought us the fantastic TL's and TSX's for body style but then may have also fostered the "beak" designs. Maybe he's learned a thing or two.
Lexus will likely do the same thing once the fad or novelty sales numbers start to decline. The spindle looks good on cars like the LC or even the IS but beyond that it's going to be a question of who's in and who's out at Lexus design and style departments.
Surprisingly, it's Kia and Hyundai who are on a stylistic roll these days. Just saw a bunch of their cars and CUV's at the local mall display. Sorento, Cadenza, etc. Really good style that will age well.
Automotive News reports Toshinobu Minami, the new head of global design for Acura, says the company may have gone "a little overboard at some points" with the company's shield grille. Minami said Acura has had bad feedback on the design from multiple directions, but says the company isn't going to "buckle under that pressure." Instead of scrapping the beak design all together, the designer wants to keep the corporate look while simultaneously reaching further out toward a premium design language. Honda, meanwhile, will receive models with a sportier and more active-looking exterior. Acura recently debuted more demure interpretations of the shield grille on models like the ILX and the NSX Concept.
Minami says reactions have been somewhat less vitriolic compared to the past, and the designer contributes that in part to people growing accustomed to the look. It's either that, or we're all just tired of complaining about how awkward the Acura stable looks when the company is happy to run around with its fingers in its ears.
Minami says reactions have been somewhat less vitriolic compared to the past, and the designer contributes that in part to people growing accustomed to the look. It's either that, or we're all just tired of complaining about how awkward the Acura stable looks when the company is happy to run around with its fingers in its ears.
Obviously that guy moved on and now it's Jon Ikeda who's in the top spot. He was the guy who brought us the fantastic TL's and TSX's for body style but then may have also fostered the "beak" designs. Maybe he's learned a thing or two.
Lexus will likely do the same thing once the fad or novelty sales numbers start to decline. The spindle looks good on cars like the LC or even the IS but beyond that it's going to be a question of who's in and who's out at Lexus design and style departments.
Surprisingly, it's Kia and Hyundai who are on a stylistic roll these days. Just saw a bunch of their cars and CUV's at the local mall display. Sorento, Cadenza, etc. Really good style that will age well.
03-05-17, 06:22 PM
#309
I love Lexus just for their reliability. I hate their new grilles with a passion. That's the only main reason why I don't buy their new cars. All their new car models, if you look at them from the front, looks all the same. You can't even tell the models apart if you're not a super Lexus fan or if you don't pay attention to the minor details.
03-05-17, 06:32 PM
#310
I'm not defending the spindle grill, but I think the same can be said for many automakers. Just look at BMW 3 Series, 5 Series and 7 Series.
03-05-17, 06:55 PM
#311
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
The new design language is far away, probably when next gen LS comes along so figure 8-10years.
If you look back at the 2013 GS, it looks so dated already - thats the problem with gimmick design features, they dont age well. The refresh for both the GS and IS has been a disaster by making the grille even more cartoonish.
Then you have the new Camry using their own version of the spindle which doesnt help!
Lexus needs to hire a European designer like Hyundai has done. The Genesis cars look great on the road and most Hyundais are quite attractive even the SUVs.
The Japanese culture is very slow to change or give creative control to others outside of their top Japanese managers.
If you look back at the 2013 GS, it looks so dated already - thats the problem with gimmick design features, they dont age well. The refresh for both the GS and IS has been a disaster by making the grille even more cartoonish.
Then you have the new Camry using their own version of the spindle which doesnt help!
Lexus needs to hire a European designer like Hyundai has done. The Genesis cars look great on the road and most Hyundais are quite attractive even the SUVs.
The Japanese culture is very slow to change or give creative control to others outside of their top Japanese managers.
03-05-17, 07:30 PM
#312
Lexus Champion
The Germans OTA though have a pedigree, especially BMW with those twin-grills so it's not surprising that they hook buyers for their smaller less expensive cars and CUV's by putting that design on them. It's a long established sport/luxury brand identifier for aspiring car buyers just like Benz's grill and famous three-point star.
Lexus seems to be putting the big schnauzer front ends on everything in sight. But there's no history of such a grill design from the company's inception. The other guys have a history that is their marketing trademark in many ways.
03-05-17, 07:56 PM
#313
Lexus Champion
And the grill on the latest MDX is just as big and bold, IMHO it's less attractive. It's just variations on a theme, MDX sales were great and have been, their grill wasn't an issue.
The point of the spindle grille was to have a uniquely Lexus grill along the lines of the BMW kidney grills or the Audi shield grill. While you will see the shape refined and changed over time as you do with those grills, the basic spindle shape grill isn't going anywhere.
If you look at the spindle it's already gone through 3 generations. The first spindles like you see on my LS, or the previous refresh version LX or ES, GS, IS. The bolder, squarer spindle you see on the RX, NX, latest LX refresh, ES refresh, GS & IS refresh and the new smoother spindle you see on the LC and LS.
The point of the spindle grille was to have a uniquely Lexus grill along the lines of the BMW kidney grills or the Audi shield grill. While you will see the shape refined and changed over time as you do with those grills, the basic spindle shape grill isn't going anywhere.
If you look at the spindle it's already gone through 3 generations. The first spindles like you see on my LS, or the previous refresh version LX or ES, GS, IS. The bolder, squarer spindle you see on the RX, NX, latest LX refresh, ES refresh, GS & IS refresh and the new smoother spindle you see on the LC and LS.
Many of us on CL have accused both Acura and Lincoln of being lost and not knowing what image they wish to present. To make major changes to their once recognizable grilles is not going to help matters. People will have to learn, all over again, that the rather generic diamond-pentagon now represents Acura and the Bentley-lookalike now represents Lincoln.
Audi started using its large Singleframe grille some 15 years ago. There was criticism of it at the beginning (as there has been criticism of Acura's beak/shield, Lincoln's split-wing and Lexus' spindle) but Audi stuck with it and now it is accepted and recognizably Audi, so much so, in fact, that it has arguably been copied by Hyundai.
03-05-17, 08:09 PM
#314
Lexus Fanatic
I am now of the mind that Acura should not have given up on its shield nor should Lincoln have given up its split-wing grille. Both had gone through evolutions but had not been around long enough, IMO, for them to be fully accepted. Giving up too early will only give the perception that the automaker is lost and does not know what it wants and how to get there.
Many of us on CL have accused both Acura and Lincoln of being lost and not knowing what image they wish to present. To make major changes to their once recognizable grilles is not going to help matters. People will have to learn, all over again, that the rather generic diamond-pentagon now represents Acura and the Bentley-lookalike now represents Lincoln.
Audi started using its large Singleframe grille some 15 years ago. There was criticism of it at the beginning (as there has been criticism of Acura's beak/shield, Lincoln's split-wing and Lexus' spindle) but Audi stuck with it and now it is accepted and recognizably Audi, so much so, in fact, that it has arguably been copied by Hyundai.
Many of us on CL have accused both Acura and Lincoln of being lost and not knowing what image they wish to present. To make major changes to their once recognizable grilles is not going to help matters. People will have to learn, all over again, that the rather generic diamond-pentagon now represents Acura and the Bentley-lookalike now represents Lincoln.
Audi started using its large Singleframe grille some 15 years ago. There was criticism of it at the beginning (as there has been criticism of Acura's beak/shield, Lincoln's split-wing and Lexus' spindle) but Audi stuck with it and now it is accepted and recognizably Audi, so much so, in fact, that it has arguably been copied by Hyundai.
Can you honestly say that this..............
Looks better than this.................?
If the answer is yes, then, fine........I'll respect your opinion. But I can't agree.
03-05-17, 09:09 PM
#315
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
for grins i decided to put lexus rc350 and audi a5 side by side. i believe the audi is based on a fwd platform, but using quattro for better perfomance/handling.
look how similar the setup is:
