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Lexus used to be a pretty good competitor to MB and BMW, but now Lexus is barely above Acura. So sad.
Come on Lexus! Design a car that appeals to mass market. Give us new power trains every 4-5 years not 10-12 . Give us cutting edge safety and navigation system! You can't just rely on reliability as your main selling point when most luxury buyers lease their cars.
Lexus used to be a pretty good competitor to MB and BMW, but now Lexus is barely above Acura. So sad.
Come on Lexus! Design a car that appeals to mass market. Give us new power trains every 4-5 years not 10-12 . Give us cutting edge safety and navigation system! You can't just rely on reliability as your main selling point when most luxury buyers lease their cars.
killing the gs would definitely bring Lexus a notch down closer to Acura
Lexus used to be a pretty good competitor to MB and BMW, but now Lexus is barely above Acura. So sad.
Come on Lexus! Design a car that appeals to mass market. Give us new power trains every 4-5 years not 10-12 . Give us cutting edge safety and navigation system! You can't just rely on reliability as your main selling point when most luxury buyers lease their cars.
Oh, that would really elevate them to the upper tiers of the luxury market, wouldn't it?
Isn't that what brought Acura down -- designing too many cars that are too much like mass market Civics and Accords?
It's all in the styling.
Back in 1986, Acura used to make beautifully styled cars.
However by 1995, bland styling started to set into the big Acura Legend.
1986-90 Acura Legend
1990-94 Acura Legend
Early 1990's Acura Vigor
However by 1995, bland styling set into the 1995-04 Acura Legend.
What's more, this bland model languished for nearly 10 years.
By the mid 1990's, bland styling also appeared in the smaller Acura TL.
The 1995-04 Acura Legend dragged for nearly 10 years.
However, its midlife update saw a more inspired nose with a sharper grille.
Likewise, the late 1990's saw a more inspired Acura TL with a sharper radiator grille too, plus a nice ****.
By 2004, the smart looking Japanese Honda Legend/Acura RL won Japan's Car of the Year award, now using a short wheelbase with the engine mounted more nose heavily in front of the front axle.
By the late 2000's, the Japanese Honda Legend's midlife update nose looked quite satisfactory.
However by the late 2000's, the US Acura RL midlife update's nose looked absolutely terrible!!
The current model Acura RLX's nose just looks terrible.
The tail is so bland.
Ditto the mid & late 2000's smaller Acura TL's, and the current TLX AWD; so poorly styled.
It's all in the styling.
Styling appeals to the emotions.
Styling sells.
If Lexus wants to go Acura/Infiniti's way with the 5LS styling, then go ahead, and fail.
At this present point in time, the 5LS styling has gone backwards, however overall, Lexus is far from Acura.
If I'm not wong, Lexus will bounce back with their styling.
The 5LS styling is just a one off thing.
There are ups and downs; good days, and bad days.
No one is perfect every time.
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I actually think the current RLX and TLX are the best looking Acuras they've made in a long time lol
You always talk about styling as if your opinion were a fact "this car is horribly styled", "this nose just looks awful", styling is a matter of personal taste.
Lexus used to be a pretty good competitor to MB and BMW, but now Lexus is barely above Acura. So sad.
Come on Lexus! Design a car that appeals to mass market. Give us new power trains every 4-5 years not 10-12 . Give us cutting edge safety and navigation system! You can't just rely on reliability as your main selling point when most luxury buyers lease their cars.
Without reliability, who's willing to settle for tame cars that are called sofas on wheels?
What Lexus can keep up with its BMW counterpart? I've read the review of the 2016 GS F Sport, and besides having large brakes, it was a pretty negative review. The motor just took the cake, it was constantly mentioning how much less torque it had than an A6, how slower it was compared to an A6, how this, how that, and it's $61k? Throw in reliability, and everything changes. Keep that, and design a car people would want regardless--go back to fall 1989 in your thinking. But there are constraints, namely, money. People want a Mercedes. They want an Audi, BMW, Porsche. They get a Lexus because of its sensibility factor.
Without reliability, who's willing to settle for tame cars that are called sofas on wheels?
What Lexus can keep up with its BMW counterpart? I've read the review of the 2016 GS F Sport, and besides having large brakes, it was a pretty negative review. The motor just took the cake, it was constantly mentioning how much less torque it had than an A6, how slower it was compared to an A6, how this, how that, and it's $61k? Throw in reliability, and everything changes. Keep that, and design a car people would want regardless--go back to fall 1989 in your thinking. But there are constraints, namely, money. People want a Mercedes. They want an Audi, BMW, Porsche. They get a Lexus because of its sensibility factor.
I had a choice between the IS vs 335. I chose the IS because it was the better drivers car. The A4 at the time wasn't so great either. The IS350 won most of the comparisons at that time so yes, a Lexus can win the drivers car argument.
Without reliability, who's willing to settle for tame cars that are called sofas on wheels?
What Lexus can keep up with its BMW counterpart? I've read the review of the 2016 GS F Sport, and besides having large brakes, it was a pretty negative review. The motor just took the cake, it was constantly mentioning how much less torque it had than an A6, how slower it was compared to an A6, how this, how that, and it's $61k? Throw in reliability, and everything changes. Keep that, and design a car people would want regardless--go back to fall 1989 in your thinking. But there are constraints, namely, money. People want a Mercedes. They want an Audi, BMW, Porsche. They get a Lexus because of its sensibility factor.
I suspect you're referring to the Car and Driver article. They've always been critical of this generation of GS.
When Motor Trend compared it against the 535i, M37, and A6, they placed the GS350 in first place. This review is a few years old, but their GS comments are still valid. As the new 5 Series and the new A6 improve, the GS will have to as well. Few, if any cars, retain their number 1 comparison status for their entire life cycle.
Remember that E60 535i I mentioned, the one we adored and awarded first place in a February 2010 comparison test? Well, this new Lexus GS 350 F Sport reminds us of that car. A lot. Nimble, balanced, precise, and quick, the GS is a (retired) BMW cloaked in Lexus steel. At 3834 pounds, the GS is the lightest of the four and it feels it — turn-in is sharp and accurate, and weight transfer, whether lateral or longitudinal, is neutral and composed. The Lexus proved the most entertaining, rewarding, and confidence-inspiring up, down, and along our demanding Malibu road loop. Ultimate driving machine? Oh, yeah.
Lieberman: “Great steering. Balanced, communicative, properly weighted. Just a joy to drive. Neutral without being leaden. Very Mazda-like, in fact. And I say all this having driven the car in Sport instead of Sport Plus.” Evans: “This is a Lexus? Really impressed with the handling and confidence in the car. Holds the road much better than expected. Can really fling it at the corners.” Martinez: “The Sport Plus algorithm allows for a proper testing of its grip thresholds, and on the loop’s tight technical zigzags, it was just right. Only once did any traction control light flash, and, unlike the Infiniti, shifts were clean, fast, and when you wanted them. Also unlike the Infiniti: The Lexus felt way smaller than it was. Like, really smaller.”
And of the A6:
Yes, the A6, whose supercharged 3.0-liter V-6 doles out the most torque (325 lb-ft) and second-most horsepower (310), outclassed the others from 0 to 60 (4.7 seconds), in the quarter mile (13.4 seconds at 102.2 mph), around the skidpad (0.95 g), and through the figure eight (25.1 seconds at 0.74 g). In fact, the only test it didn’t win outright was 60 to 0 braking, which, at 106 feet, placed it in a tie with the BMW. But despite four wins and one first-place tie, the A6 finished last in the most important criterion: driver engagement. Martinez: “The Audi failed to give me any enthusiastic feedback. There was no visceral exhaust note to go with the entertaining speed and no communicative steering either. It just felt like it was going through the motions.” Lieberman: “The Audi has Quattro, but it’s very nose-heavy. Audi masks this flaw with all-wheel drive and gobs of power, but it’s not a good-feeling car to drive. For instance, while not as fast, the Lexus just kills the Audi in feel.”
Again, I know this is an older article, but I'm using it to show that Lexus can build world class driver's cars. It's just coming up on time to replace the GS again, and when they do, I am sure it'll be great. They've sorted out the chassis, now they need to up their game in the engine department, which they appear to be starting now.
I actually think the current RLX and TLX are the best looking Acuras they've made in a long time lol
You always talk about styling as if your opinion were a fact "this car is horribly styled", "this nose just looks awful", styling is a matter of personal taste.
Steve, those "subjective and qualitative personal tastes" are objectively and quantitatively measured through either surveying or sales.
Just look at Infinity and Acura sales; they're not that bad to drive.
One person's opinion doesn't have much clout, but thousands, hundreds of thousands, and millions of buyers opinions is not something that can be ignored.
There is a difference between one person's opinion, versus the opinion of the masses measured through quantitative: polls, surveys, sales and other means.
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Steve, those "subjective and qualitative personal tastes" are objectively and quantitatively measured through either surveying or sales.
Just look at Infinity and Acura sales; they're not that bad to drive.
One person's opinion doesn't have much clout, but thousands, hundreds of thousands, and millions of buyers opinions is not something that can be ignored.
There is a difference between one person's opinion, versus the opinion of the masses measured through quantitative: polls, surveys, sales and other means.
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You are drawing a conclusion that a correlation between your opinion of styling and sales success is a causal relationship when there isn't any cause to do that. Acura utilities are selling as well as ever, and they have the same styling traits. Sedan sales are slowing industry wide, there are other reasons for lower sales of some of these sedans. Markets change from decade to decade, because one model sold well 20 years ago and it doesn't sell as well now, and you liked the styling 20 years ago and don't now isn't a causal relationship.
You're assuming that buyers who chose not to buy these cars did so because they did not like the styling, and thats just a baseless assumption on your part.
You are drawing a conclusion that a correlation between your opinion of styling and sales success is a causal relationship when there isn't any cause to do that. Acura utilities are selling as well as ever, and they have the same styling traits. Sedan sales are slowing industry wide, there are other reasons for lower sales of some of these sedans. Markets change from decade to decade, because one model sold well 20 years ago and it doesn't sell as well now, and you liked the styling 20 years ago and don't now isn't a causal relationship.
You're assuming that buyers who chose not to buy these cars did so because they did not like the styling, and thats just a baseless assumption on your part.
Steve, if you like, you can do a poll here directly on Infinity/Acura styling.
Without having to do a poll, I can tell that Infinity/Acura styling is unpopular here.
Manufacturers will have results from their internal polling.
My wife got an IS200t; I received internal polling from Lexus a month or so ago.
Ultimately, styling will depend on the ability of the stylists themselves, and in particular, on the ability of the project head to employ and guide the stylists.
Results won't be determined by one person's opinion, but collectively from a group of people; the larger the sample number, the better.
Make no mistake, styling is a very important factor in the success of a motor car.
After name/badge/heritage etc, styling is often the next most important facet of a motor car.
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Thats just the point...a poll here wouldn't tell you anything. This is a Lexus forum, and even if it were an Infiniti or Acura forum its not a representative sample of the buying population for either brand. All that tells you is "what do ClubLexus members think of Acura or Infiniti styling?" What value is that information?
And by the way, I've read plenty of positive posts here about especially Infiniti styling.
I'm not saying styling isn't important, I'm saying you aren't the universal judge of what is or is not attractive styling.
It's all in the styling.
Back in 1986, Acura used to make beautifully styled cars.
However by 1995, bland styling started to set into the big Acura Legend.
1986-90 Acura Legend
1990-94 Acura Legend
i owned a silver '87 coupe LS and then a dark green '94 sedan GS 6 speed stick.
both WONDERFUL cars.
and then i got a '00 GS400
so i hear ya.
It's all in the styling.
Styling appeals to the emotions.
Styling sells.
yup. styling, details, colors, textures, as well as features but features without style doesn't grab emotionally like you say.
If Lexus wants to go Acura/Infiniti's way with the 5LS styling, then go ahead, and fail.
At this present point in time, the 5LS styling has gone backwards, however overall, Lexus is far from Acura.
while i'm not bowled over with the 5LS styling outside, it is certainly dramatic and not ugly (to me), and i really have no idea how it will do.
If I'm not wong, Lexus will bounce back with their styling.
03-20-17, 09:29 PM
