OK, Folks....Now it may (?) be my turn to go shopping.
#136
Lexus Test Driver
Any consideration for Subaru Legacy with the 3.6 Flat 6?
I have been extremely impressed with our Legacy Sport and it only has the 2.5 4cyl.
The ride is extremely comfortable especially over some of the worst roads in NYC, plus great AWD that handled snowstorm without a sweat, handling is very good, steering is very direct and heavy (for its segment) especially compared to ES which is what i prefer.
I have been extremely impressed with our Legacy Sport and it only has the 2.5 4cyl.
The ride is extremely comfortable especially over some of the worst roads in NYC, plus great AWD that handled snowstorm without a sweat, handling is very good, steering is very direct and heavy (for its segment) especially compared to ES which is what i prefer.
#137
Lexus Fanatic
Tbh I'm not gonna put up any fight. Not tryna get kicked out of car chat. But I will say one thing this is a Lexus forum and besides me and a couple of other people everyone here says oh my next car won't be a Lexus, and they all prefer a different car other than Lexus. I creol around the BMW and Benz forum it is completely opposite. Even if there brand car is garbage they would choose it over a different brand due to loyalty. Now that I'm done with my rant, again I would choose a es over any genesis product, that's just me I truly love my es it's my baby. And you have to keep in mind that this gen es is slowly closing out and the next one will be exceptional at least I think so. A lot of people will call the g80 "Hyundai genesis g80" and I don't blame them one bit cause other than the missing Hyundai logo, that's exactly what it is. The interior says so.
The ES is much more a "Toyota" than a G80 is a "Hyundai". The ES is basically a Toyota Avalon, same platform, same engine, same transmission, they're basically the same car. The G80 however is not based on any Hyundai model, doesn't share an engine or power train, it's a very different car than the ES. Not to say the ES is bad, it's just much more an entry level vehicle than the G80 which is a more substantial transverse/RWD car more similar to more expensive cars like the GS or 5 Series or E Class. You get that sort of car for ES money which is where the Genesis value proposition comes in. Same as with the G90 you get an LS, 7, S Class car for loaded 5 Series money.
the only reason *I* would buy an ES over a G80 is brand, IMHO the G80 is a superior car but it doesn't carry with it the same panache the ES does, or the resale value that comes with that. Which matters more to you depends on you.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-03-17 at 07:28 PM.
#138
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
My neighbor has a new Kia K900. It's surprisingly classy looking. If it drives anywhere near as well as it looks, I would definitely consider it. I'm past the stigma of Kia and Hyundai reliability. The predecessor to my ES was a Hyundai Sonata. It was pretty much problem free for 5 years, 80k+ miles of ownership. I probably would have kept it if not for a random CEL it produced just after an emissions test.
If Lexus doesn't step up their game, the Korean's may give them the body shot they never saw coming. It's dog eat dog right now. (no pun intended)
If Lexus doesn't step up their game, the Korean's may give them the body shot they never saw coming. It's dog eat dog right now. (no pun intended)
#139
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by SW15LS
This is a Lexus forum but that doesn't mean all of us have to buy nothing but Lexus vehicles, and like only Lexus vehicles, and think Lexus makes the best product in every category. While I certainly agree with you that it's unfair for the tone about Lexus to be relentlessly negative, which I have voiced here that I think it often is, nothing like that has gone on in this thread IMHO. Many members here in CarChat do not own Lexus vehicles or no longer own Lexus vehicles, and al long as they aren't ragging in Lexus unfairly whenever they can (which I agree does happen here sometimes), what's the issue? Expressing a preference for another vehicle is not "ragging on" Lexus.
The ES is much more a "Toyota" than a G80 is a "Hyundai". The ES is basically a Toyota Avalon, same platform, same engine, same transmission, they're basically the same car. The G80 however is not based on any Hyundai model, doesn't share an engine or power train, it's a very different car than the ES. Not to say the ES is bad, it's just much more an entry level vehicle than the G80 which is a more substantial transverse/RWD car more similar to more expensive cars like the GS or 5 Series or E Class. You get that sort of car for ES money which is where the Genesis value proposition comes in. Same as with the G90 you get an LS, 7, S Class car for loaded 5 Series money.
the only reason *I* would buy an ES over a G80 is brand, IMHO the G80 is a superior car but it doesn't carry with it the same panache the ES does, or the resale value that comes with that. Which matters more to you depends on you.
The ES is much more a "Toyota" than a G80 is a "Hyundai". The ES is basically a Toyota Avalon, same platform, same engine, same transmission, they're basically the same car. The G80 however is not based on any Hyundai model, doesn't share an engine or power train, it's a very different car than the ES. Not to say the ES is bad, it's just much more an entry level vehicle than the G80 which is a more substantial transverse/RWD car more similar to more expensive cars like the GS or 5 Series or E Class. You get that sort of car for ES money which is where the Genesis value proposition comes in. Same as with the G90 you get an LS, 7, S Class car for loaded 5 Series money.
the only reason *I* would buy an ES over a G80 is brand, IMHO the G80 is a superior car but it doesn't carry with it the same panache the ES does, or the resale value that comes with that. Which matters more to you depends on you.
#140
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
(There's a reason why the G80 is now #2 on my list).
#141
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, the G80 is a Hyundai, and the Lexus ES (and every other Lexus) is a Toyota. It's not offensive, it is what it is. My first Lexus said "TOYOTA" on all the window glass. Ever buy a part from a Lexus dealer? The boxes say Toyota. Lexus and Genesis are marketing divisions of their respective companies. When Lexus started they absolutely did have a car that was a Toyota they essentially slapped Lexus badges on, the Camry. Yes Hyundai sold the Genesis, but it was still a car priced similarly they just tried to sell luxury cars without the brand at first unlike how Lexus chose to operate.They used to sell every Lexus model in Japan under Toyota badging.
People used to to say the same thing about Lexus being a Toyota as a disparagement, and still do. Owning a Lexus and looking down on a Genesis for being a "Hyundai" makes no sense.
People used to to say the same thing about Lexus being a Toyota as a disparagement, and still do. Owning a Lexus and looking down on a Genesis for being a "Hyundai" makes no sense.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-03-17 at 07:58 PM.
#142
Lexus Fanatic
Actually, Steve, by the seat of my pants, the G80 doesn't necessarily drive any better than an ES. Both, with the 3.8L G80, seem to have about the same level of ride/handling and drivetrain performance. But the G80's sense of solidity and quality is just worlds apart from an ES. No matter how Lexus tries to spin it, with the exception of the typically Lexus mirror-smooth paint job, the ES's materials just don't compare with the G80's. And I can say that with a fair amount of confidence....I'm not just talking nonsense.
(There's a reason why the G80 is now #2 on my list).
(There's a reason why the G80 is now #2 on my list).
#143
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by SW15LS
Yes, the G80 is a Hyundai, and the Lexus ES (and every other Lexus) is a Toyota. It's not offensive, it is what it is. My first Lexus said "TOYOTA" on all the window glass. Ever buy a part from a Lexus dealer? The boxes say Toyota. Lexus and Genesis are marketing divisions of their respective companies. When Lexus started they absolutely did have a car that was a Toyota they essentially slapped Lexus badges on, the Camry. Yes Hyundai sold the Genesis, but it was still a car priced similarly they just tried to sell luxury cars without the brand at first unlike how Lexus chose to operate.They used to sell every Lexus model in Japan under Toyota badging.
People used to to say the same thing about Lexus being a Toyota as a disparagement, and still do. Owning a Lexus and looking down on a Genesis for being a "Hyundai" makes no sense.
People used to to say the same thing about Lexus being a Toyota as a disparagement, and still do. Owning a Lexus and looking down on a Genesis for being a "Hyundai" makes no sense.
#144
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Any consideration for Subaru Legacy with the 3.6 Flat 6?
I have been extremely impressed with our Legacy Sport and it only has the 2.5 4cyl.
The ride is extremely comfortable especially over some of the worst roads in NYC, plus great AWD that handled snowstorm without a sweat, handling is very good, steering is very direct and heavy (for its segment) especially compared to ES which is what i prefer.
I have been extremely impressed with our Legacy Sport and it only has the 2.5 4cyl.
The ride is extremely comfortable especially over some of the worst roads in NYC, plus great AWD that handled snowstorm without a sweat, handling is very good, steering is very direct and heavy (for its segment) especially compared to ES which is what i prefer.
#145
Lexus Test Driver
Again not starting a fight I whole heartedly disagree with everything you just said. Apart from the es and rx (which I still don't think are toyotas). No other Lexus IS a Toyota. There is gs alternative no is alternative no ls alternative no rc alternative no gsf or rcf alternative no gx alternative no nx alternative. I can keep going on and on but I think you get my point. Lexus IS a real luxury brand it is always being compared to Germans. Sorry to burst your bubble genesis is no where near on Lexus or German levels. I mean couldn't they come up with a unique name? Genesis was a existing HYUNDAI car and they just made it into a brand. There was car called the Toyota Lexus. I think I've proven my point but my fellow "Lexus" forum members whole heartedly disagree. I've never seen this on any other forum other than this. And if ou wanna look at that way. Audis are nothing but Volkswagens then. Again please don't ban me from the car chat forum as I'm just stating my opinion and defending my favorite car brand that is "represented" by this forum. And also I have full rights to look down at genesis. People just don't know what it is yet except a Hyundai car. Lexus has finally gotten respect from people outside of this forum that it deserves.
Genesis is exactly what Lexus was back in 1989-1990.
Every brand shares parts - hell RollsRoyce has bunch of BMW parts all over it.
LX - Land Cruiser
RX - Highlander
GX - Prado
NX - RAV4
GS, IS, RC - Crown
CT - Prius
ES - Avalon
New LC and LS are on new platform, not sure which Toyotas will use it for JDM market.
I advise you to learn history of some of these brands to get a better understanding.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 04-04-17 at 06:07 AM.
#146
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
Every Lexus is based on a Toyota - just some are not sold in US.
Genesis is exactly what Lexus was back in 1989-1990.
Every brand shares parts - hell RollsRoyce has bunch of BMW parts all over it.
LX - Land Cruiser
RX - Highlander
GX - Prado
NX - RAV4
GS, IS, RC - Crown
CT - Prius
ES - Avalon
New LC and LS are on new platform, not sure which Toyotas will use it for JDM market.
I advise you to learn history of some of these brands to get a better understanding.
Genesis is exactly what Lexus was back in 1989-1990.
Every brand shares parts - hell RollsRoyce has bunch of BMW parts all over it.
LX - Land Cruiser
RX - Highlander
GX - Prado
NX - RAV4
GS, IS, RC - Crown
CT - Prius
ES - Avalon
New LC and LS are on new platform, not sure which Toyotas will use it for JDM market.
I advise you to learn history of some of these brands to get a better understanding.
#147
Lexus Fanatic
Lexus is Toyota. You take that as an insult but it's not an insult, it is what it is. Lexus is not a company, it's a division of Toyota. Lexus vehicles are all manufactured by Toyota just sold under the Lexus name and in Lexus dealers. Yes, Audi is Volkswagen. Yes, Infiniti is Nissan. Yes, Acura is Honda. Yes, Genesis is Hyundai. It's not an insult, it's what they are.
Clearly this doesn't bother me since I've bought 6 of them. It shouldn't bother you either. My only point was looking down on Genesis because it's a Hyundai doesn't make any sense since Lexus is the same thing to Toyota.
Clearly this doesn't bother me since I've bought 6 of them. It shouldn't bother you either. My only point was looking down on Genesis because it's a Hyundai doesn't make any sense since Lexus is the same thing to Toyota.
#148
Lexus Champion
You know I'm not gonna even waste my energy on people who call themselves Lexus fans but have nothing good to say about it. I'm just gonna move on and not got banned from the car chat. And one last thing if you wanna bring up a crown I have not till this day heard someone say to a gs is or rc. "Nice Toyota crown" cause that car many people just don't know about imho.
#149
Super Moderator
The RC is the only truly bespoke Lexus model I'm aware of, that has never been sold under the Toyota brand. One could argue about the CT having a different body shape than the Prius and Corolla/Matrix it's based on. But as SW15LS stated, there's nothing wrong with this.
Quite true. VWAG is more adept than anyone at brand engineering and platform sharing. If you put 10 non-car-enthusiasts in front of a Cayenne, Touareg, and Q7, 0 or 1 would guess that they're the same car underneath the skin. Especially if they drove them. Even less likely that someone would notice that the R8 and Gallardo are the same car, or the tiny coupe TT-S and the 4-door hatch Golf R.
For the most part, everybody does it (platform sharing). It's way more efficient, and therefore results in better cars for less money. That doesn't mean there's never a reason to choose a Lexus, Audi, Infiniti, or Acura over their Toyota, VW, Nissan, or Honda cousins. But it also doesn't mean one should delude oneself about what they're driving, and develop some sort of superiority about it.