Sorry, I don't make bets.....it's against my religion. Also, for health reasons, I don't eat beef or pork.

I'll say this, though.......I honestly had no idea I'd be in a Verano some day. I first saw the Verano, in pictures, when someone else posted it here on Car Chat and opened a thread....when Buick first announced it. I had seen, reviewed, and, in one case, even owned, so much junk and poor quality in GM compacts/subcompacts over the years (Corvair, Vega, Chevette, Monza, Citation, Cimarron, Cavalier, Cobalt, etc.....) that my first reaction was......"Well, that's just what we need....another GM compact, Chevy-based, poorly-built, piece of crap". Boy, was I wrong....and I'll be the first one to admit it. The Verano, with its Opel-source, was nothing like the junk-quality predecessors I just named....it was as different as night and day. Though there were still a couple of things I didn't care for on it (among them 45-series tires and a Ecotec-4 instead of a small V6), the first time I inspected one in the showroom, looked at the quality hardware inside and out, test-drove it with the Buick Quiet-Tuning, and, especially saw the price (only low-mid-20s to start) it was pretty much love at first sight.

 

Took a 2017 ES350 out for a little test-drive today (didn't bother to extensively write it up, since I'm doing this for my own shopping now, not for others, or on request). Drove a little nicer than the last one I had sampled, which was on a very cold winter day when the rubber in the tires were hard and the insulation less-effective. Today's 80-degree temperatures and strong sunlight made for much softer rubber and a pretty nice ride over bumps....about the equal of the Lacrosse's ride. Generally well-assembled, and with good fit/finish, a jewel-like polished wood steering wheel, and good noise isolation....warm days and sunlight also expand the weatherstripping/insulation pieces and make them more effective. A much better shifter than the Lacrosse, despite having an (IMO) awkward zig-zag pattern and a confusing manual-shift display. And the ES promises better long-term reliability than a Lacrosse. But the interior, despite the nice assembly-quality, has a number of cheap, so-so, thin plastic parts, an awkward-to-use Mouse-Controller on the console, a bottom seat cushion (without adjustable thigh-support) that is way too small and short for my large heavy legs, a poorly-placed brake pedal for my big feet, and a rear seat that, despite a pass-through, doesn't fold down...I sometimes carry long, wide items in the trunk, and need the extra space.

So.....I like the ES's warm-weather ride, the reliability, the steering wheel, and the Swiss-watch assembly-quality.....but there are several negatives that keep it out of first-place. I'd put it in a tie with the Lincoln MKZ for third...behind the Lacrosse and the G80. Ordinarily, Lexus would win for dealer service, but I'm not impressed with how that particular Lexus shop is run (I had previous experience there, as an owner, with my Lexus IS300), and, by my standards, I got much better service from my GM shop. The GM On-Star system is also quite impressive.

Though it's not a done deal yet (and I emphasize that), it looks more and more like I'll end up behind the Tri-Shield again.....only this time, in color LOL.

 

You should sample an Ultra Luxury ES, it has the extending thigh cushion on the seat as well as better leather inside, etc. Downside is they come with 18" wheels.

Which dealer did you go to? Pohanka?

 

Exactly. My tush likes cush.

The Lacrosse, of course, has 18" wheels standard, but they are a high enough (50) profile that it takes the edge off of bumps...especially on warm sunny days like this. The ES's 17" wheels and 55-series tires also are fine for my needs....I see no need for more aggressive rubber on a car of this type.

On the ride, I also noticed that the ES uses cheaper Mac-struts all around, while the Lacrosse has a more sophisticated 5-link suspension in the rear....that may (?) be the reason the Lacrosse gets the same ride-smoothness with slightly lower-profile tires.

I'll PM you.

 

You could try a UL ES300h...they keep the 17s. If you like the vehicle I'm sure a dealer would swap the 17s onto a UL 350.

 

do the rear seats on the lacrosse fold down? i've always been surprised lexus doesn't offer this on some (all?) their sedans.

 

Not sure about the Lacrosse, but I don't believe any Lexus sedan has fold down seats which is strange I agree.

 

Try a awd GS350, interior quality is better then the ES. Did you try a Shawd TLX or RLX, the RLX probably has the softer ride you are looking for and you likely can get a great deal on one.

 

He won't like the way the GS rides

 

Excellent question...and I'm glad you brought it up. On one of my Lacrosse check-outs, I thought I did remember them folding 60/40 ....but a look at the Lacrosse specs doesn't mention them at all. So, either I was wrong (wouldn't be the first time LOL) or the Buick people just forgot to mention them on the website. You can be sure that the next Lacrosse I look at, that will be the first thing I check.

Auto manufacturers, though, sometimes DO forget things on their website. When I was reviewing the Kia Sedona (back around the time Steve and his wife got one), I noticed on the web-site for several Kia models (not all of them) that they had no references to any spare tires, temps, donuts, fix-a-flats, or run-flats.....the editors had simply forgotten to add it (remember the big long discussion that me and several other posters had about that one LOL)? I spoke to some Kia customer-reps, and it was fixed a couple of weeks later....they added it But I have a feeling that the Buick site is correct, and the seat-folding feature is just not offered on the Lacrosse as it is on the smaller, Opel-based Buicks. Of course, the Lacrosse is a larger car to start with...presumably with a larger trunk.

Some auto manufacturers say they don't offer that feature because, by having separate folding rear seats, it cuts down on the torsional (bending) rigidity of the center and rear unibody structure by eliminating a cross-brace behind the rear seat. More likely, it is simple cost-cutting.

(This is why its good to discuss potential car purchases here on Car Chat with our car-saavy crowd. No matter how experienced we are in automotive matters, or how many vehicles we look at, one can always forget something....especially as age starts keeping in).

 

I've sampled it (did a review of one a few years ago, before Mike left). It's not bad by my standards, but, you're right....I generally prefer something more along the lines of the ES/Lacrosse/MKZ, though the Genesis G80 (which IMO is a good GS competitor) is on my potential list.

 

The G80 is considerably softer than the GS. IMHO the downside of the G80 is the interior, if it were more like the G90...quality is good it just lacks panache.

 

The G80's interior hardware and solid door-closings though, at least IMO, seems a cut above the GS.....and that of the GS, perhaps because of the higher cost, a cut above the ES. The G80's nameplate may lack panache (less now, under the Genesis name, than with Hyundai)....but Korean automakers, in general, give you a lot for your money.

I agree with you that the G90 is somewhat more ornate inside then the G80, especially in the rear seat...but its overall quality and solidness doesn't feel any different, at least to me. I also have a feeling (though we're going to have to wait and see the actual figures) that depreciation on the G90 is going to be enormous, at least for the first few years.

 

this implies they are, as you say, 60/40 folding...

http://www.buiclub.com/info-745.html

 

Thanks, bit, but that appears to be for the last-generation Lacrosse, not this one. No problem...I'll find out in a couple of days. I plan to do a night test-drive to see how well the instruments and controls are lighted, and how well the headlights perform....though in this big-city area, everything is so well-lit at night that they don't make much difference.