mmarshall

Excellent point.......although, in most cases, FWD and AWD makes rocking less likely to be necessary than with RWD. Even electronic traction control is often of only limited usefulness with RWD.

JDR76

I rocked my TSX in the snow more than once with a gated shifter and it was fine. I don't really get the issue.

mmarshall

It's possible with a zig-zag, of course, but, IMO, much easier with a convention fore/aft shifter. Och is correct.

JDR76

And yet, the outcome is the same. I can assure you, it wasn't difficult at all.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

agreed, have seen several mkz's and though i'd (finally) seen the elusive continental, but nope.

i've lived in snowy places for years too (PA)... rocking a car with the transmission is seriously bad for it and i'd rather wait or just dig the snow out and use sand or kitty litter or a rug to get traction (done all of those)

Mike728

Were you looking for a yellow car, or did he somehow convince you to buy one? It appears as if he has special powers over you. I would stay away!

mmarshall

Thanks for your input, but, no, you misunderstand the situation. I specifically wanted a yellow one, with a base-level package...saw one that year at the 2001 D.C. Auto show, and liked it. They tried to sell me one off the lot, in several other colors (no yellow ones were in stock)....I held out for yellow, although the Auburn Sky metallic (a nice reddish-orange sunset color) was tempting. Finally, they found a base-level yellow one, unspoken for, headed for New York on a cargo ship. I took delivery of it a couple of days later, after it reached the dealership. I may (?) have paid a little more than if had bought one off the lot (dealerships usually like to clear out what is in stock), but such is life.

It turned out to be an excellent car. ...with few problems outside of some transmission-shift quirks now and then (and that, of course, is when I joined CL). If I had any later misgivings about that particular transaction, I probably regret not getting an ES 300/330 instead....it had a nicer interior, rode more comfortably, and had better winter traction. But I liked that yellow paint job and the unusual chronograph gauges and chrome-ball shifter. The 1Gen IS was, IMO, also more solidly-built than the 2Gen and 3Gen.

mmarshall

I took a new G80 out for a test-drive today......3.8L AWD (RWD, for me, is out of the question). Listed around 45K. Quite impressed with it...very well-built, solid-closing doors, interior trim and fit/finish even better than the 2Gen Hyundai Genesis I had sampled a few years ago (the G80, of course, replaces the almost-identical Hyundai Genesis). I especially liked the no-nonsense, conventional fore/aft PRNDL shifter.......which, sadly, is lacking in several of its competitors. I didn't like the oversized front grille, though, which was too Audi-like, and the general ride comfort, though good, wasn't quite up to that of the relatively cushy 18"-tire-Lacrosse (the Lacrosse 20" wheels and Hi-per-strut suspension option are unacceptable...too stiff). Still a good enough car, though, that the G80 now surpasses the Lincoln MKZ as #2 consideration on my list now (behind the #1 Lacrosse). I'd buy a G80 before the (current) Lexus ES....and Genesis now has a "Blue Link" feature for emergencies that is similar to GM's widely-aclaimed On-Star.

Although the Lacrosse's E-shifter s**ks, you can't turn off the idle-stop feature, and it's hardware/assembly is not quite as solid as the G80's, I still feel more at home in it, though, than with any of its competitors. And, unlike the G80, it (and some ES models) are built here at home with American labor. The MKZ is built primarily at the Hermosillo, Mexico plant.

imrankh24

Of course lol, but anyways imo call me biased all you want I would never choose any genesis over a Lexus. And I own a es so let a lone choose a g80 over a es. Just my imo. The es looks way better inside out. The g80 reminds me to much of a Hyundai inside. And the next gen es will blow the competition out of the water for sure. Come on now just look at the pics of my es vs a g80. Anyways just my 2 cents guys.

LexBob2

To my eye the Genesis looks more upscale and elegant than the ES. Maybe its because there are more ES on the road and they've become more "familiar".

mmarshall

I'm not going to call you biased...you are simply expressing your honest opinion (which is what I asked for when I opened the thread). I'm pretty well-familiar with the current ES....I've test-driven two of them, several of my older friends and colleagues who I regularly swim with own or lease them, and one of them recently had some eye problems, and could not drive, so I helped ferry him around in it (he's now recovered and back behind the wheel). The ES is definitely a nice car (I won't pull any punches), and has an excellent reliability record. But, inside, the current interior uses much lighter, cheaper-feeling hardware and trim than the G80 (I can easily tell the difference between the two of them blindfolded, simply from sitting down inside and feeling the materials alone), and the ES doors feel and sound quite tinny compared to those of the G80 and their solid, heavy thuds. In short, the ES simply cost-cut in materials more than the G80 did, though I'd still say that the ES paint job is better...you can't beat a Toyota/Lexus or Audi paint job.

Mike728

My neighbor has a new Kia K900. It's surprisingly classy looking. If it drives anywhere near as well as it looks, I would definitely consider it. I'm past the stigma of Kia and Hyundai reliability. The predecessor to my ES was a Hyundai Sonata. It was pretty much problem free for 5 years, 80k+ miles of ownership. I probably would have kept it if not for a random CEL it produced just after an emissions test.

If Lexus doesn't step up their game, the Korean's may give them the body shot they never saw coming. It's dog eat dog right now. (no pun intended)

SW17LS

I too would choose a G80 over an ES, just a more upscale car, proper longitudinal engine layout. Feels (and is) a class above the ES, it really competes with the 5 Series just value priced closer to the ES.

Wandl

I think Lexus has stepped up their game; the new LS is a lot edgier (good or bad), the 16+ ES has had rave reviews and the GS continues to have a good fan following (I'm eyeing a GS450h currently). While I do agree they need to revamp the tech in half their cars (all 2017 Toyota's come standard with adaptive cruise/lane departure....but not big brother Lexus?) the Korean's are respectably fulfilling a void in the market since Lexus prices have steadily creeped upwards the past decade. The GX is the most desperate model that needs some love and investment, but I don't think people buy the new Lexus to get the latest 9 speed transmission or the latest autonomous technology; they buy it for predictable reliability, a "familiar standard" in comfort and dealership experience as well as commendable luxury resale values. Right now, Kia/Hyundai/Genesis can't address any of the 3 points, though they are very much trying.

While I have a 10 LS460, I test drove a 14 Equus, Genesis (5.0!) and K900 over the past 12 months. There are some stellar buys to be had here (the 15 K900 I looked at was in the low $30s...and I'd rather have that than a V6 Camry!). There was a problematic issues with one of the engines of the Genesis V8's early on, but I think that's just growing pains for Hyundai. Very interested to see how Genesis evolves and is accepted to the mainstream luxury marketplace; competition is always good for the market as folks like Audi (update the A8 already!), Daimler, BMW won't take their leadership pole positions for granted.

Side note: ~75% of BMW deliveries (either in 2014 or 2015) were leases....this means a TON of them are going to hit the market soon. I'm shocked the lease # is that high, BMW can't count on low-interest leases for their retail delivery strategy anymore now that the Fed has bumped up the rate (and will continue to bump them up) in 2017. Daimler wasn't far behind; I'm willing to bet leases are a minority among Lexus purchases.

imrankh24

Tbh I'm not gonna put up any fight. Not tryna get kicked out of car chat. But I will say one thing this is a Lexus forum and besides me and a couple of other people everyone here says oh my next car won't be a Lexus, and they all prefer a different car other than Lexus. I creol around the BMW and Benz forum it is completely opposite. Even if there brand car is garbage they would choose it over a different brand due to loyalty. Now that I'm done with my rant, again I would choose a es over any genesis product, that's just me I truly love my es it's my baby. And you have to keep in mind that this gen es is slowly closing out and the next one will be exceptional at least I think so. A lot of people will call the g80 "Hyundai genesis g80" and I don't blame them one bit cause other than the missing Hyundai logo, that's exactly what it is. The interior says so.