97-SC300

iTrader: (17)

Hear this over and over again being said about the LS400 and LS430 models.

I lost interest in the LS after 2006 when they released the LS460. In my opinion it was the beginning of a new era for Lexus when material and build quality went down noticeably and more focus was put on styling and gadgets than making ultra smooth and well built vehicles.

The funny part is, some clean LS430s are bringing in more money than the older LS460s if you look around on various car buying sites and eBay and Craigslist. Seems like people are holding onto their 430's much longer than the 460's.

SW17LS

Having owned all three, the LS400, LS430 and LS460, I agree yet don't agree. Now, my LS460 is the 13-17 refresh, refresh version, but I have driven a couple previous generation 460s also. My 460 is every bit as smooth and quiet as my 430 and my 400 were. The 460 is also more dynamic, making it overall more enjoyable to drive. The 400 and 430 rode great, but you put them onto any sort of a winding road or into an offramp at high speed and they let you know they weren't designed for that. The 460 doesn't fall apart the same way. The engine is not quite as smooth at every throttle/idle/RPM as the 4.0/4.3 engine is, it has some DI tick at idle, and the timing chain increases sound and vibration a little bit. The 460 has a lot more power, but doesn't really feel like it does (to be fair mine is AWD and obviously my 400 and 430 were RWD.

Outside the 460 is every bit as high quality as the 400 and 430, the hand sanded paint is beautiful and is easily the best finish I have ever had on a vehicle, superior to the paint finish on the 400 and 430, much thicker feeling and more resistant to chipping. Inside, my 460 is not quite as nice from a material standpoint as my 430, but better than the 400 overall. Remember though, my 430 was a UL with semi-aniline leather, suede headliner, real leather on the door panels and dash, etc. My 460 has stitched imitation leather on the dash and door panels, that while superior to the padded plastic on the 400 in those areas, is not as nice as the real leather on the 430 UL. However, a 460 with the semi-aniline leather package also has real leather in those areas and the suede headliner, so a 460 spec'ed that way is similar to a UL LS430. My 460's base cloth headliner is very nice, much nicer than what I had in the LS400. From a trim perspective, the shimamoku wood trim and wood/leather steering wheel in my 460 is far superior to the wood trim I had in the 400 and 430. Little touches on the 400, like the fact that the face of the CD changer in the dash was woodgrain even though it was hidden behind a door, the pillow soft nature of the headrests that you don't notice until you rest your head on them, the super soft special leather behind the door pull you don't feel until you go to pull the doors closed are absent on the 460...and were largely on the 430 as well. One other thing that bugs me on the 460 vs the 430 and 400 is the rearview mirror. On the 400 and 430 it was a custom Lexus mirror color keyed to the headliner (so cars with grey headliners had a grey mirror, cream a cream mirror, etc), which really made it look upscale. On the 460 its just a parts bin gentex mirror you see on many cars...my Kia Sedona and LS460 have the same rearview mirror, which is wrong.

From a technology perspective the 460 blows the 430 and 400 away.

Where it falls short of the 430 and 400 is in a few little quality issues I've had. I had to myself pad the sides of the console to get rid of some rattles, neither my 430 or 400 ever had ANY rattle...not even 100k+ miles on the 430 or 165k on the 400. My glove compartment door in the 460 slams down, dealer tried to fix the dampening once and it didn't last, have to take it in again. These are minor things, BUT things that were unexpected given my history with the LS. So I would agree, overall that they're probably not overbuilt like they used to be, still built well.

My statement that my LS400 was the best car I ever owned isn't really a denigration of my LS460, its just that car was special in a way that my LS460 isn't...which may totally have to do with me...it was the first car of such caliber we ever had, where that quality is common to me now. It was a car that got me started on Lexus, etc.

I'm very happy with the LS460 and could own this a long time, but I still go back and look at old LS400s on eBay, when I move on from the LS460 I'm not likely to do that...and I don't do that with the LS430, or ay other car I've had.

97-SC300

iTrader: (17)

Lets not forget the LS460's fall apart after 100k miles due to their much inferior suspension components. LS400 and 430's did not have those problems. The car overall is just cheaper feeling inside but maybe that's just my opinion.

SW17LS

It's $1000-1500 to replace the control arms at an independent shop, and that issue really only happens on 07-10 cars, the arms were redesigned for 2011, falls apart isn't a fair statement. Lots of high mileage 460 owners on CL. I have no doubt I can get 200k trouble free miles out of mine.

Also, I replaced control arms on my LS400, as I did on my 03 ES300.

As for feel, I don't really agree, perhaps on older 460s but mine feels very solid and premium, just as my 400 and 430 did.

One thing is other cars have improved in solid and expensive feel also.

mmarshall

Though I did not own one, it's hard to beat an LS430. IMO, it's arguably the best car that Lexus ever built. It improved on the 400's few weaknesses without the later qualty-drops.

SW17LS

The LS430 never did it for me the way the LS400 did. Not as good looking, awkward in places. Less fun to drive. I do miss the LS400 at times, but I never miss the LS430.

mmarshall

Well, I'll certainly respect your opinion as an owner. But the 430's interior, especially, to me at least, seemed a lot better done and more plush than the 400's...epecially the early 400s.

I agree that the 460 was a (slight) quality letdown overall, but its noise-isolation was remarkable...arguably (along with the massive 1969 Lincoln Continental I got to sample a a teen-ager) the quietest car I've ever sampled, though the newer Mercedes S-class, and, to a lesser extent, even the new Lacrosse, come close. One reason (among several) I ordered the Lacrosse over its in-class rivals was the effectiveness of the Buick Quiet-Tuning...but I wouldn't necessarily say it's quieter than an LS. The LS460 I sampled also had what was probably the best automotive stereo (Mark Levinson) I've seen. Even my not-so-young ears could not believe its sound quality.

SW17LS

The interior was better from the standpoint of more wood, more technology. The car just wasn't as special IMHO as the LS400. The 400 I'm talking about is the 98-00. When I talk about the LS430 I'm talking about the 04-06 version, the 01-03 LS430 is hideous IMHO.

Yeah the two things I wish my LS460 had are the ML audio, and the semi-aniline leather upgrade.

Another thing that I preferred about the LS400 was size. The LS has gotten a lot bigger, my LS460 feels a lot bigger than my LS400 did, without being really any bigger feeling inside. I avoided the LWB car, but now the SWB is gone and the LS500 will be 10+ inches longer than the LS400. The 400 was a good size IMHO.

lexslexus

Best car: My '96 LS 400 wins hands down. Totally spanks all my other cars in every which way. This is a Lexus forum so we all know why. Have only had it for 3 months but every time I drive it, I get a little more impressed with each drive even though I was extremely impressed from the start. Just today I was checking my transmission fluid and couldn't believe that, if not for the hushed sounds of fans and a squeaky belt, the car idled so quietly that I almost forgot it was on.



Worst car: My '03 Passat W8, which was formerly my best car. When this car has zero problems (more often than you'd think), it will make you thank the automotive gods for its existence as it is magnificent in every area and so much fun to drive. When it doesn't work properly... Well, let me quote the previous owner (who was crazy enough to put up with it for 10 years), "Enjoy your W8 to the fullest while you can because one day it will let you down and when it does it will make you curse or empty your bank account."

Parts are super expensive and take forever to arrive so you'll need a spare car, most mechanics have no experience working on this car and are afraid to work on it, and some extended warranty companies will not cover it. The engine, torque converter, and a tiny part attached to the gas tank WILL fail, and when they do VW's only fix is a brand new engine, transmission, and gas tank. Every time you drive this car, in the back of your mind you're wondering, "What is going to kill my car in the end? The engine? The transmission? Fire from the failed heat seater or leaking gas tank? Electrical system?"

Still, it's not uncommon in the W8 community to come across people who say things like, "Yeah, this is my 3rd W8 and I just spent $10,000 to get it running. We've been check engine light free for 6 months" LOL! I don't know what it was about the W8 that I owned in particular but the 2 previous owners, myself, and the guy that I sold it to all had really bad luck with it. Yes, it's fun to drive and it feels great knowing that you're the only W8 driver around (around 2,000 imported for 3 years) but none of that matters if your rare Audi disguised as a B5.5 Passat with an experimental 8 cylinder Buggatti engine spends more time sitting in your driveway than on the road and you can't find anyone you trust to fix it properly (including VW dealerships).

These are some of the major issues in my W8's life before I owned it:

• 6 months straight at the dealership because of electrical problems.
• Shortly afterwards, it spent 1 entire year at the dealership.
• That year, my W8 went into the dealership for electrical problems and came out with a new engine, new transmission, and nearly every part of the car was replaced until they finally (temporarily) solved the electrical issues.
• Thankfully, the previous owner was still under warranty because it would have cost him around $20,000 and VW refused to buy the car back.

These are the mechanical issues I had with my W8 after I owned it:

• ​​​​Leaking gas tank that should have been replaced under recall years ago but VW didn't because not spending $3,000 to replace the gas tank on every B5 Passat with 4motion is more important than someone dying from the car catching on fire.
• The crazy expensive and hard to find liquid cooled alternator started dying while battling VW over the gas tank and the brakes (designed specifically for this car) went bad too. Did I mention that it was a losing battle?
• 3 miles into ownership I was welcomed by the, "STOP! Check coolant," light. I only had about 1 cup of coolant in the entire coolant reservoir because of a broken clamp on a hose.
• Valve cover gasket leak
• Transmission pan gasket leak
• Left headlight works when it wants to or not at all.
• CV axle was clicking.
• Soon enough, the engine's heart started skipping a beat during idle (for lack of better words) which is a death sentence.

I'm not even going to get into all the non-mechanical problems I had related to this car. From the shipping company, to the dealership that I brought it from, to my local VW dealership that I had it serviced at... let's just say that legal action was taken. Ended up reluctantly selling my W8 to a French mechanic who flipped it then tried to sell it on eBay but he ended the auction because it either broke or was stolen. I'd bet my bottom dollar that it was broken.

I fell in love with the B5.5 Passat ever since I first laid eyes on one in 2003. Clearly, me and my dream car were not meant to be! Still, I'm thankful for it or else I would not have ended up with my LS 400.

dseag2

Best:

Current car (in my sig), because it has all the current technology and drives like a dream.


1977 Olds Cutlass. V6 engine stalled all the time. Couldn't wait to get rid of it.

Aron9000

Best used car, 3 way tie, but for different reasons:

1991 Cadillac Brougham D'Elegance- Drove it from 100k to 130k, only problem I had with that car were the front brakes and the battery. I didn't realize how bad the brakes were when I bought it until I completely rebuilt the front brakes with new calipers, rotors, and pads at 105k, holy crap I just thought it was an old heavy car, that's why it didn't like to stop. No, the front brakes(rear drums were fine) were completely shot when I bought it. Had a couple of other minor niggles like a power seat motor and a loose ground on the battery. Damn you GM and your side post batteries, the negative had been cross threaded, buggered up the bolt and the battery, about went batty for a day wondering what sort of weird electrical problem I had that shut the car off, until it was extremely obvious. For an old GM car, it was great, it was much nicer than my 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood in terms of build quality and all those little details, it had a lot more chrome on it.

1992 Lexus SC300/5 speed- Almost at 100k miles, its been extremely dependable, runs/drives like a new car. Main thing I love about this car, it doesn't feel or drive like a 1992, like its 25 years old. This car was WAY ahead of its time IMO. The quality is just great as well, interior doesn't rattle, leather seats still look nice, paint is still a mile deep brilliant.

1993 Toyota Truck- This thing was beat to **** when I bought it, 150k miles on it, been hit in the front, just a total POS, but hey $500 for a running beater truck can't be that bad. It always ran great, only real grief it gave me was the alternator/water pump belt. Turns out Advance Auto sold me the wrong size belt, so I can't really blame Toyota on that one. Sold it 4 years later for $1500, still looked like ****, but I did put some $$$$ into it(new clutch, radiator, belts, tune up, put some new parts on the front end that had been hit). I still think it drives better than my 2004 Tacoma, it sat a bit lower, had less body roll, and the 22-RE engine had more off idle torque than the newer Tacoma with the 2RZ-FE(you rev the nuts off that engine to get any power). Honestly that old truck with the 22-RE was quicker than my newer Tacoma.

Worst: 1991 Buick Regal sedan, 1st car. Our old family car, odometer stopped at 94k 4 or 5 years before I got it, so maybe 150k miles, maybe 175k???? Car was 10 years old when I got it, it was a really nice, reliable car until then. Don't know if it was me being a knucklehead 16 year old driver or if GM just designed the car to completely fall apart at that age/mileage so you'd buy a new car. There was something always going wrong on that car the two years I drove it, a couple of random electrical problems, bad fuel pump, brakes were junk from the factory, then the transmission blew out. Dad should've junked it then, as the clear coat was burning off it as well, but he fixed the tranny and it soildered on for my sister for another year or two.

ThumperPup

I am not going to post all my cars I have owned here I will just post the worst car I have ever own and the best car I have ever owned.

worst vehicle I have owned biggest headache I ever had was the 2000 Cadillac Seville SLS with every option available when purchased new with 10 miles traded in with 219k I had the head gaskets replaced twice and engine total rebuild with a new block once, transmission rebuilt once, always had something going wrong probably spend 20k in repairs during the last 3 years of ownership and it was the AC compressor that made me say no more.

Best car I have owned my 2007 Lexus ES35o current vehicle. Bought with 44k now has 172k replaced alternator at 101k replaced water pump at 80k
only large repairs that have had to be done now that where not my fault
their customer service at lexus is great because the car sat all winter in wet weather the rear control suspension arms would not adjust wen ti went for an alighment i called lexus told them about it a 2 days latter they called me back saying take it to the dealership that lexus will cover the reparis
the dealer wante 600 to do this work
lexus covered a 10 year old car with 172k on it under warranty on these items didn't charge me anything to do it not even part of the labour they payed it all. that is what i call good customer service thats why ill stay with lexus

MJG87

I currently have a VR4 Galant, it's looking for a new home though (sadly). I am confident you would feel different about it if you had a modified VR4 and not the base model.

ragingf80

I'm sure the VR4 is a MUCH MUCH better driving experience than my old V6. What year is it? Pics? I used to drool over them back in the day!

MJG87

Mines a 96'. TT V6, AWD with Evo AYC, 5 speed, Beige leather interior, Sunroof, CF interior trim, HID's, bigger front mount with all custom piping, custom intake,turbo back exhaust, 32 way adjustable coil overs, Enkeis off my Evo 7, Slotted and cross drilled rotors, braided break lines, alloy radiator, big thermo fan setup, nice big sound system, aftermarket cruise control and a bunch of other little cosmetic bits and pieces.

Not as fun as the Evo to drive but it's much nicer, bad on fuel, a bit long in the tooth now at 20 years old, makes too many funny noises and requires too much maintenance. Nice for a weekender but I don't need it anymore. Broke my heart selling my Evo a few weeks ago so I'm not looking forward to this going too, but I need to be an adult, about to hit 30 haha.


I also had a Legnum (VR4 Estate) as a daily, auto, cloth interior, no options, and th eonly mod was an alloy radiator, blow off valve, and a bigger front mount with alloy piping. Great car though.