Is the sedan doomed?
#1
Is the sedan doomed?
On the HP, Brett Foote wrote about how Lexus believes its sedans need to evolve or die, and that Toyota Motor Corp.’s global branding chief Tokuo Fukuichi thinks the configuration's days are numbered. I happen to think he's right, especially after cars go autonomous, and don't focus on driving pleasure. What do you think?
#2
While I respect your opinion, Johnny, IMO, the idea that sedans are doomed is nonsense. Camry, Fusion, and Accord sedans still sell like hotcakes, and I just ordered a new Buick Lacrosse.....after almost buying four or five other similiar-class sedans.......ES350, MKZ, G80, and Cadenza. The Toyota Corolla (available in both sedans and other body-styles) is arguably the top-selling car in history. Buick is introducing the new 2018 Regal in only hatchback and wagon form; no sedan, and dropping the new 2018 Verano sedan from the American market .......I think they will find, after a couple of years, that both omissions were marketing errors. And, of course, the Lexus ES350 has been one of that division's bread-and-butter vehicles for decades.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-03-17 at 10:41 PM.
#3
"Fukuichi believes that a “sedan experience” must include sports car-like handling and sharper steering response"
Thank you. That's actually what we want. Car manufacturers keep making them softer, including my last 3 BMWs.
Thank you. That's actually what we want. Car manufacturers keep making them softer, including my last 3 BMWs.
#4
I wouldn't think so, people have to be practical, sedans are easier to get people in and out of. As are suvs. imho coupes are for looks? Example though, with the current M3/M4, I actually prefer the M3, which has 4 doors. But in the prior generation, I prefer the E92, which is 2 doors. This is all about looks, as the cars perform very similarly...
#5
BMW is one of the very few exceptions. Most automakers are continually making their sedans more and more sport-oriented, especially in higher-trim versions.
#6
I dont think so. It comes down to consumer tastes and preferences and society and the economy. When gas prices were high, people bought up penalty boxes like a prius or yaris or Fiestas or whatever fuel sipping small penalty boxes and SUVs were shunned. Wait until the next recession hits when people dont want to spend money on higher operating costs of owning a SUV and paying for more at the pump for real life gas mileages. We are living in excess right now and big and excessive is what people want these days.
#7
The market trends, are just that trends. Is the sedan of today doomed? Possibly, but I think in the future a version of sedan will be around. Not everyone wants to drive an SUV/Crossover/Minivan to get 4 doors. Maybe the market sales are not as strong as the used to be. Many factors involved in car trends. Economy is a big part. The generation of buyers these days 21 to 35 want either sporty or utility and don't really view, esp lower trim levels, sedans as either. I am sure as this generation ages and the next younger generation comes into the big buying segment the trends will shift somewhere else. Feels like it happens every decade with a few hold overs.
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#8
doesn't take a genius to see that traditional sedan volume will continue to be eroded by cuv/suvs, but that doesn't mean they're 'doomed' just as the predicted death of 12 cylinder cars has been exaggerated for decades.
like the majority of american consumers who buy trucks, cuv/suvs and minivans, i have zero interest in sedans because they're 'stuck in the middle' - not that versatile in terms of space, and rarely that sporty due to size/weight. yes, physics can be defied with cars like panameras, but try getting grandma in the back of one of those. but for the next decade sedans will be fine, but things are getting very blurred... i blame subaru for starting it. is a tall wagon or hatchback looking vehicle a cuv?
like the majority of american consumers who buy trucks, cuv/suvs and minivans, i have zero interest in sedans because they're 'stuck in the middle' - not that versatile in terms of space, and rarely that sporty due to size/weight. yes, physics can be defied with cars like panameras, but try getting grandma in the back of one of those. but for the next decade sedans will be fine, but things are getting very blurred... i blame subaru for starting it. is a tall wagon or hatchback looking vehicle a cuv?
#9
Sedan sales are in-fact decreasing; SUV/crossovers are now selling two to one for many manufacturers. Sedans are not doomed as a model choice, but their sales will continue to slide for the foreseeable future. Lexus needs to continue to push the envelope on it's offerings. The NX has been a bright spot; forecast was 2200/mo, but actual sales are 4500/mo and growing. Lexus needs to expand their crossover segment to continue to gain market share.
#10
imho there will always be an element of what a person likes, and actually wants, and this cannot be dictated by a mfg. nor any survey results or studies. Two cars that I like that I have seen this week/been behind.....a S550 (maybe a dime a dozen sure), and a S600 Maybach. Both happen to be sedans, and imho both very plain jane, but beautiful at the same time. Turn either into a coupe or SUV, nein danke!
#11
I simply don't buy the idea that the sedan is doomed....certainly not in the foreseeable future. In the American market, despite the huge popularity of SUVs, and the fact that sales of some sedans are down, the mid-sized family sedan market (Camry, Accord, Fusion, Sonata, Optima, Malibu, Altima, etc...) is just too large and widely-entrenched.
#12
Sedeans are absolutely not dead. They are just in decline right now. There are some factors as to why. But first, it needs to be said that there really is three classes of cars right now and I wish the media would address it. Cross over SUVs are not true SUVs, they are essentially cars that are jacked up a little and offer AWD.
Now, it must be said that manufacturers have figured out how to get folks into a higher price point for less car in reality.
Interior room in the RX is not much different than the ES. In fact the RX is very likely a shorter car. Same thing for NX or Rav4. People buying these models are making a big compromise to get their AWD. They have to settle for 4 bangers, a slighter small interior for the cost. And a precieved larger rear hatch. An RX is essentially a ES. Kind of like how a Sequoia is really a Tundra at heart.
If Toyota offered AWD on Corollas, Camrys, Avalon's and ES350, it would take a sizable chunk out of their cross over sales.
The RAV4 is nothing more than a Corolla/matrix that is slightly higher and offer's AWD and a barely larger 4 banger. The interior is not much large than our Matrix and the rear cargo is not much more than our Matrix. But people are willing to fork out 30k large for the RAV4.
Now, it must be said that manufacturers have figured out how to get folks into a higher price point for less car in reality.
Interior room in the RX is not much different than the ES. In fact the RX is very likely a shorter car. Same thing for NX or Rav4. People buying these models are making a big compromise to get their AWD. They have to settle for 4 bangers, a slighter small interior for the cost. And a precieved larger rear hatch. An RX is essentially a ES. Kind of like how a Sequoia is really a Tundra at heart.
If Toyota offered AWD on Corollas, Camrys, Avalon's and ES350, it would take a sizable chunk out of their cross over sales.
The RAV4 is nothing more than a Corolla/matrix that is slightly higher and offer's AWD and a barely larger 4 banger. The interior is not much large than our Matrix and the rear cargo is not much more than our Matrix. But people are willing to fork out 30k large for the RAV4.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 05-04-17 at 04:14 PM.
#13
While I respect your opinion, Johnny, IMO, the idea that sedans are doomed is nonsense. Camry, Fusion, and Accord sedans still sell like hotcakes, and I just ordered a new Buick Lacrosse.....after almost buying four or five other similiar-class sedans.......ES350, MKZ, G80, and Cadenza. The Toyota Corolla (available in both sedans and other body-styles) is arguably the top-selling car in history. Buick is introducing the new 2018 Regal in only hatchback and wagon form; no sedan, and dropping the new 2018 Verano sedan from the American market .......I think they will find, after a couple of years, that both omissions were marketing errors. And, of course, the Lexus ES350 has been one of that division's bread-and-butter vehicles for decades.
#14
Sedeans are absolutely not dead. They are just in decline right now. There are some factors as to why. But first, it needs to be said that there really is three classes of cars right now and I wish the media would address it. Cross over SUVs are not true SUVs, they are essentially cars that are jacked up a little and offer AWD.
Now, it must be said that manufacturers have figured out how to get folks into a higher price point for less car in reality.
Interior room in the RX is not much different than the ES. In fact the RX is very likely a shorter car. Same thing for NX or Rav4. People buying these models are making a big compromise to get their AWD. They have to settle for 4 bangers, a slighter small interior for the cost. And a precieved larger rear hatch. An RX is essentially a ES. Kind of like how a Sequoia is really a Tundra at heart.
If Toyota offered AWD on Corollas, Camrys, Avalon's and ES350, it would take a sizable chunk out of their cross over sales.
The RAV4 is nothing more than a Corolla/matrix that is slightly higher and offer's AWD and a barely larger 4 banger. The interior is not much large than our Matrix and the rear cargo is not much more than our Matrix. But people are willing to fork out 30k large for the RAV4.
Now, it must be said that manufacturers have figured out how to get folks into a higher price point for less car in reality.
Interior room in the RX is not much different than the ES. In fact the RX is very likely a shorter car. Same thing for NX or Rav4. People buying these models are making a big compromise to get their AWD. They have to settle for 4 bangers, a slighter small interior for the cost. And a precieved larger rear hatch. An RX is essentially a ES. Kind of like how a Sequoia is really a Tundra at heart.
If Toyota offered AWD on Corollas, Camrys, Avalon's and ES350, it would take a sizable chunk out of their cross over sales.
The RAV4 is nothing more than a Corolla/matrix that is slightly higher and offer's AWD and a barely larger 4 banger. The interior is not much large than our Matrix and the rear cargo is not much more than our Matrix. But people are willing to fork out 30k large for the RAV4.
#15
Sedeans are absolutely not dead. They are just in decline right now. There are some factors as to why. But first, it needs to be said that there really is three classes of cars right now and I wish the media would address it. Cross over SUVs are not true SUVs, they are essentially cars that are jacked up a little and offer AWD.
Now, it must be said that manufacturers have figured out how to get folks into a higher price point for less car in reality.
Now, it must be said that manufacturers have figured out how to get folks into a higher price point for less car in reality.
Interior room in the RX is not much different than the ES. In fact the RX is very likely a shorter car. Same thing for NX or Rav4. People buying these models are making a big compromise to get their AWD. They have to settle for 4 bangers, a slighter small interior for the cost. And a precieved larger rear hatch. An RX is essentially a ES. Kind of like how a Sequoia is really a Tundra at heart.
The RAV4 is nothing more than a Corolla/matrix that is slightly higher and offer's AWD and a barely larger 4 banger. The interior is not much large than our Matrix and the rear cargo is not much more than our Matrix. But people are willing to fork out 30k large for the RAV4.