ragingf80

LOL that would explain it. Didn't I see this car uncovered like a year ago? Lexus brought one to the last Japanese Classic Car Show I went to last September. It's been so long I thought it came out already! That can't be good for Lexus. Seems like old news now, classic overexposure. Like the NSX, let the cat out of the bag too soon? Now no one cares about the overpriced NSX.

SW17LS

I think classifying Lexus as a tier 1.5 brand is accurate. A half step below BMW and Mercedes, but ahead of a company like Acura, or Volvo or Lincoln. I would consider Cadillac in a similar boat, perhaps Audi as well.

If I look at myself I feel like a BMW or Mercedes would be an "upgrade", yet I don't feel an Audi would be, ore of a lateral move. An Acura, Volvo or Lincoln I feel would be a downgrade.

SW17LS

I consider BMW and Mercedes upgrades because they have more prestige, they in general are built with better materials used, engines are better, they're more expensive with higher line options available, they have more history and more pedigree.

For instance with the LS460 I'm driving the best car I can buy from Lexus. I can buy newer iterations of this car, but there's no headroom. At Mercedes and BMW I have options above me.

It's one thing when a product simply costs more, but isn't better. When you sit in an S550 or a 7 Series and compare it to the LS, they're better cars clearly. More expensive also. The LS500 is a step up in build quality, but only V6 power no V8. You always have to make compromises in a Lexus, with Mercedes and BMW there are no compromises as long as you have the cash. With Lexus, even with cash you must compromise. That's a huge reason why they aren't on the same level.

Johnhav430

I think the bottom line is people ooh and ahh when they see new BMW and MB products. I dunno if it's the same when Lexus comes out with a new product. The flagship has been relegated to a V6, that in itself is a thread and debate. To me, engineers build in excitement, bean counters take it out in the interest of the bottom line. The question then becomes, how much of what the engineer wants, makes it into production? When a BMW has 600HP, and 601HP, that 601 was totally by design, i.e. the engineers did what they wanted, that the 760M should have 1 hp more than a B7. When an Equus gets x HP and x ft. lbs., imho, that was simply seeing what we could get, turning out to be hundreds less than the MB car they compare themselves to, while consuming more fuel. That is engineers having less to work with, and bean counters keeping things aligned to the bottom line. So I agree, Lexus is the best of the Asian cos., but not equal to BMW or MB. And this is subjective, if a person feels that Lexus is the equal, they can, and why does it even matter since they're the ones paying for the Lexus?

UDel

I think with base Audi cars it is a lateral move compared with Lexus but Audi offers things on the high end that Lexus does not. Audi S4, S5 have a 354hp 6 cylinder compared to 311hp from Lexus. S6 and S7 Audi's have tt V8, RS models are mostly all 500+hp, RS6 had a 10 cylinder. Audi A8 is nicer and has a nicer interior then the LS, 8 cylinder puts out over 400hp and much quicker and the A8 has/had 10 and 12 cylinder options. I think considering what Audi offers on the high end they are more Tier 1 with BMW and Mercedes but definitely 3rd place behind Mercedes and BMW by a pretty wide margin in the Tier 1 class.

Lexus is more Tier 1.5, they offer some Tier 1 competition but it is generally not as high end as the Germans and the bulk of Lexus sales are Tier 2 vehicles that are not really Tier 1 competitive. I don't see anything wrong with that, but I do think Lexus needs to step its Tier 1 offerings up more to separate from Tier 2 offerings and justify the added cost as Lexus is on the way to dropping to more of a Tier 2 brand if they don't.

SW17LS

The A8 has a little bit nicer interior, but it won't when the LS500 comes out. The A8 does not drive nicer. I wouldn't consider an A8 an upgrade. The S and 7 sure.

Johnhav430

I heard that when you pull in for service with your Audi, your wheel alignment is checked in under 2 minutes. Does Lexus have such technology yet? The last time I pulled in for BMW service (state inspection, not an actual service per se), was December, and I don't recall that, but it may have been there and my alignment had already been done in August so no mention of alignment...again, with the German cars, there is this notion that you are entitled to a loaner, and you won't be spending any time in the dealership....I may be wrong again, but even though Lexus has "stellar" customer service, they do not give out loaners like candy, which is actually quite a value as one can easily just drop the car and go to work.

SW17LS

My Lexus dealer has portable alignment tools and they check it as soon as you pull in. My dealer also gives me a loaner for everything and anything.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

There are times I can't get a loaner from bmw as well, even when I put in request when making appt online . They always short on loaners, so the only way to ensure a loaner is 1:be friend with your SA, 2: call the dealership ahead of time and insist on a loaner.

Johnhav430

I don't like that, I get that we're all people, but I was never into "tipping the SA at Christmas." I'm not a bad person, just that it's business. And you will address me as Lord or Sir. j/k. [deleted]

So if Lexus provides free loaners too for anything and everything, obviously, I, and everyone else who packed the lounge areas, have chosen the wrong dealerships. Because let's face it, to not have to wait, is valuable.

Again, I feel that Lexus customer service is far superior, but many of their repair costs are beyond a joke. I pull in for a coolant and brake fluid replacement, they do a multipoint inspection with my '06, and they are recommending more than $4k in repairs? I could be wrong, but it was 100% based upon age (2006 MY), and mileage (83k). Because at the other dealership, the car has nothing but check marks on the multipoint. And I mentioned it at the sub section, they show that my clutch fluild is good/checked off. LS430. Please.

edit: just thought of another comparo....Lexus has a very odd "Lexus Driver's" website. BMW's owner's website is not odd. lol