RNM GS3

^
Historically they benefited more than any other brand, now they are behind the latest/greatest which is EVs.
The local NYC agencies have THOUSANDS of Priuses. All taking up parking space all over NYC.

They also get crazy protection in JDM market and I believe sell hybrids only in European countries like UK.

Sulu

Well, when you are one of the very few -- and best-known -- in the market, of course Toyota Hybrids would have benefited. How is/was that bad? It seems to me that you are grasping at straws to disparage Toyota.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

most companies have increasing unit sales year over year anyway due to population, increase in leasing, etc...

how about year to year increase between lexus vs other brands (bmw, mb, audi, hyundai, etc...)? i think that would be a better indication

gengar

Would have to add up individual monthly sales because various car manufacturers use different fiscal years (TMC runs April-Mar, most of the USA uses calendar year, etc.)

Lexus sales were down ~2% in 2016 vs 2015 (calendar year), I believe. Has already been discussed in other threads IIRC, since we have had that data for months. Not sure about TMC's FY2016 vs FY2015.

The point I am making is simply that doom-and-gloom sales drops that people have posted about in this thread don't match the reality. Even the decrease in net income was due solely to forex. If people are trying to make the point that TMC should have done better, they are certainly free to do so - and I agree completely. But saying that there was a drop in unit sales or that TMC had a drop in net income for any other reason than forex does not match reality.

Tketrns

What goes up must come down eventually. I think Toyota products in general have a really great reputation with reliability and functionality that other car companies wish they had. The Camry had been a leader in the segment, but there is more competition than ever, and upcoming companies like KIA and Hyundai, as well as FIAT have been siphoning sales IMO from Toyota. Each of those brands has a car that can be cross shopped for something on the Toyota lot. I live in NC and every other car i see is a TMC product. I think that TMC will be able to be competitive and a leader again, but they will need to revamp their engine choices, which they are working on, and continue to introduce new models, like the Lexus UX and LC. They make really reliable cars that are well reviewed and come with great options, but they just don't have the bragging rights in the pure numbers to place them ahead of other brands which had a long time to catch up. I was under the impression that Japanese companies operate on a 10 year cycle. So it is fitting that at the end of this decade they would be working on new hybrid technology, and taking a risk on a joint venture with BMW for a sports car. Those two things won't payoff for several years.

mmarshall

Although it is difficult to beat the reliability of Toyota drivetrains, Hyundai and Kia (Kia, even more so than Hyundai), IMO, actually outdo Toyota in the solidness and quality of the general interior and exterior hardware...especially the interior hardware, where Toyota seems resigned to cost-cutting.

Fiat.................Well.......

situman

EVs are just hybrids without the gasoline engine with a bigger battery plugged in, therefore Toyota is more than halfway there when necessary. How many people want EVs anyways? As a second car for short errands or to go to dinner in town? Sure. But what if you need to run errands all day or drive longer distances? You either hope there's space at a charging station or pay to park at a garage hopefully with a charging port. If you need to park on the streets you are out of luck.

RNM GS3

^
EV and hybrids are VERY different especially if you look at an EV like Tesla.
The type of batteries and how the placement is engineered into the car is very important.

If it was so simple Toyota and everyone else would have done it already.

Sulu

Yes, EVs use the same batteries as hybrids and plug-in hybrids, except that EVs use higher-capacity batteries. In fact, we are starting to see that now.

The BMW i3 EV is available with or without a gasoline engine range-extender; with the range extender, it is a plug-in hybrid.

The Hyundai Ioniq is available in 3 different versions: a normal hybrid, a plug-in hybrid (range extender) and an EV. The difference is that the battery gets bigger.

Battery placement is the choice of the automaker. Chevy Volt and Volvo hybrids place the battery in the centre tunnel. Tesla, Nissan Leaf and BMW i3 place it under the floor. Hyundai Ioniq (all 3 versions) place the battery in the back, starting under the rear seat in the Hybrid and growing to include under the rear floor on the EV. This is done because batteries are still large and heavy; perhaps one day, capacity will increase (and battery size will decrease) to the point that an EV battery is as small as a gasoline-only car's fuel tank.

The reason that Toyota does not yet have an EV is because it did not have a battery that was reliable enough for their standards. Toyota believes it now has such a battery so is now working on an EV.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yes we are definitely on the same page, i completely agree with you

i think lexus is facing a shift in their customers. they are getting younger (better be) and the problem is they are trying to adjust to these customers. what ends up happening is their profit per car is dropping. don't have numbers, just a feeling

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i guess that's globally because of course toyota/lexus is way down in the u.s. for 2017 vs 2016. (toyota down 4%, lexus down 15%).

toyota could certainly be up globally due to huge growth in 'emerging' markets, mainly china. but a lot of those sales are less expensive, less profitable vehicles.

but a lot of their range is just so old now... the 2017 4runner STILL has a 5 speed auto. seriously?
lexus vehicles like the gx might be selling 'well' but the numbers are tiny (1800 last month in the u.s.). the sedans besides es and is are pretty dead.

on a brighter note, i like what lexus has done for the 2018 nx and also the current rav 4 refresh. i think toyota was very bold and smart to make the safety suite standard on many models (except lexus ) and did innovative things like led headlights on the corolla. the corolla, camry, rav4 and highlander continue to do GREAT. and a lot of those are made in north america helping with exchange issues.

GS69

http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...yota-struggles

In new automotive era, even Toyota struggles

May 15, 2017 @ 12:01 am

Hans Greimel

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Akio Toyoda: "Even with the electrification of vehicles, I want the prefix 'I love' to be affixed to those cars." Photo credit: BLOOMBERG

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TOKYO -- Not long ago, Toyota engineers prepared a special treat for President Akio Toyoda, with an eye to the electrified future. It was an all-electric version of his beloved Toyota 86, the sporty coupe Toyoda had a personal hand in creating and still drives today in rally races.

Toyoda took the modified car for a spin. He wasn't impressed.



"The first question I got was: "What is your impression?'" Toyota's self-proclaimed "master driver" recounted last week to Automotive News. "And my answer was, "It's an electric car.'"

His disappointment spotlighted a key challenge confronting old-guard automakers in a rapidly changing industry. Like other traditional metal-benders from Detroit to Wolfsburg, Toyota Motor Corp. finds itself struggling to mold conventional ideas about what a car should be into the new reality of zero emissions, autonomous driving and on-the-go connectivity.

"What I meant was, for an OEM manufacturer, you're choking yourself. It is commoditizing your vehicle," Toyoda said of the proposition of next-generation battery-powered cars.

The conflict was on full display in the latest earnings report Toyota released last week. The company reported a 21 percent tumble in net income for the fiscal year that ended March 31 and warned that net income was poised to fall again, by 18 percent, in the current fiscal year.

That would be the first back-to-back net profit decline in more than 20 years for the company founded by Toyoda's grandfather. In announcing the gloomy results, Toyoda minced no words.

"I feel a strong sense of crisis," he said, "about whether or not we are actually executing carmaking from the perspective of the customer in all Toyota workplaces, from development, production, procurement and sales, all the way to administrative divisions."

Cost conundrum


Earnings were mostly hammered by hefty foreign exchange rate losses.

But also impacting profits are spiraling costs for projects such as retooling factories for next-generation cars and investing in technologies including artificial intelligence and electrification.

It all adds up. Toyota's annual r&d budget alone is soaring above ¥1.0 trillion ($9.0 billion) for a fourth year in a row in the current fiscal year, which began April 1.

Akio Toyoda says his company must improve the way it makes vehicles. Photo credit: HANS GREIMEL

Toyoda, 61, said that is the price to pay for remaining viable in a brave new world.

"The present automobile industry is being asked to make a paradigm shift," he said at the earnings announcement. "I want to continue planting seeds with a look to 10 or even 20 years into the future."

Toyota is spending more partly to retool factories for its new Toyota New Global Architecture vehicle platform. Toyota embarked on a new era of expansion 2 years ago after taking a 3-year pause on new factories. The offensive began with the introduction of TNGA in the 4th-generation Prius hybrid. The campaign will continue through 2020 with a new factory in Mexico.

But Toyota is also funneling cash into such projects as the new U.S.-based Toyota Research Institute, seeded with $1 billion to develop artificial intelligence. Toyota needs to make cars that are as much software as hardware products, Toyoda said.

"Approaching both software and hardware from all directions is Toyota's way," he said.

For hands-on Toyoda, who lives by the Toyota maxim of "go to the source and see for yourself," his turn behind the wheel of the all-electric 86 prototype was an eye opener.

His company had long been skeptical of electric cars, in favor of the hybrid technology pioneered by its flagship Prius. But when the foot-dragging Toyota finally decided to join the EV race late last year, Toyoda insisted the company go about it in a fresh, unconventional manner.

For starters, Toyoda put himself directly in charge of the project, as chief officer of a new EV Business Planning Department, effective Dec. 1.

"When it comes to electric vehicles, every car, be it the Yaris or whatever, once it is electrified, the acceleration is all the same," Toyoda told Automotive News. "The reason I am responsible for EVs as well is that I don't want to make these cars a commodity. Even with the electrification of the vehicles, I want the prefix "I love' to be affixed to those cars."

Toyoda also wanted a flat, fast-moving organization to replicate the nimble corporate culture of the Silicon Valley startups, such as Tesla or Google, challenging the old guard. Toyota dubs it an "in-house venture company." And it is run by just four people, including Toyoda. The others come from Toyota Group suppliers Aisin Seiki Co., Denso Corp. and Toyota Industries Corp.

"I want to change the way they work on EVs," Toyoda said. "Maybe we will call them electric vehicles, but introduce connectivity. Think about Tesla. Tesla is producing cars. And Toyota is producing cars. But what Tesla is producing is something close to an iPhone."

Better cars, smarter work

Rethinking everything in the carmaking process is a big theme as the company scrambles to redouble its cost-cutting measures amid plateauing sales and bigger investment demands.

In the just-ended fiscal year, Toyota's global retail sales inched ahead just 1.6 percent to 10.3 million vehicles. Revenue declined 2.8 percent to ¥18.40 trillion ($165.38 billion). Toyota predicted unit sales and worldwide revenue will dip slightly this fiscal year.

Toyoda said his company has made big advances in churning out better cars with its new modular platform. The latest Prius, Camry and Lexus LC are proof of the improved product.

But the company also needs to overhaul the way it makes vehicles, to be more competitive.

"When it comes to making ever-better cars in a smart way, it is becoming apparent that there is still room for improvement," Toyoda said. "We need to change the work style."

Last year, Toyoda reorganized the company to create internal subcompanies free to act more independently and nimbly. He urged patience for the changes to bear fruit.

"Sales revenue is very slow to increase," Toyoda said. "But in that environment ... as the paradigm shift continues, we must make investments in those areas that do not produce immediate profit. That's the difficult challenge we are confronting."

TF109B

It's basically down to the price of the Yen. With Trump in office, talking tax cuts, I bet they start making even more cars in the U.S. They posted big profits, just not as much as usual. They're not in trouble, they just put out press releases like this to give the media an excuse or to pressure Japan to make the yen more profitable for exporters. EV's are not going to be mainstream for at least another 5-10 years and I bet hydrogen will catch on if another big car company joins Toyota in that push.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

article says they spend $9Bn on R&D. that seems very low with $165Bn in sales!

but if toyoda wants to be like tesla he better like making losses.