geko29

Though the fee itself is utter nonsense, the dealership cannot waive it--the law says such fees have to be universally and equally applied. So unless they drop the fee entirely and don't charge anyone, they have to charge you. Obviously they don't want to drop their "Additional profit fee" from every sale, so like you suggested in your last sentence, you have to accept that it will be charged, and negotiate the price of the car down to compensate.

Johnhav430

My buddy bought a new Lexus on Sat. there was plenty of haggling. He said the salesperson had been there 17 years and he was really unimpressed. We always wonder if or what we left on the table, well all I can say is he did $2400 better than what edmunds says (where you can print out a paper with a bar code and that's the no haggle price plus fees), and no fees....my analogy with no haggle, it would be like logging on to amazon, and simply trusting them that what you see is a great deal. It is, maybe 5% of the time...

SW17LS

The net result is that it gets waived though.

I don't know that I agree that its "illegal" to drop the fee. I work in an industry that is much more regulated for fair and equal treatment and access, the housing industry, and there are fees charged by all sorts of parties that get waived and such for specific customers and not for others. If we can do that, I think a car dealer certainly can. The reason they don't want to waive it is an accounting reason.

On our stickers here in MD there is a supplemental sticker that has that fee on the window, and it says "Dealer processing fee $99. This fee is not required by law". Why put the disclaimer on there if the customer can't negotiate to remove the fee?

Johnhav430

Not sure what fees we're talking about, but I believe there's a pre-printed number on the dealer bill of sale, that is absolutely nothing but fluff. It even has fine print saying not required by law.

Now, by law, they must refund what's left of the estimate for reggie fees, but, they are allowed to charge fees on top of the actual reggie amount, just that if they estimate $400, and they use a broker who charged $280, they refund the $120.

You can be like my dad, he simply says out the door, $31,978, you can print anything on the bill of sale you want, but in the end, it's that plus 6% sales tax. Not paying for reggie either, I'll do it myself. Then, because they want the car leaving the lot today, they work backwards with that number. Now maybe the car is $31,578 plus $400 for tags...they took it all off, pinstripe, vin etch, blah blah blah. Older folks ain't got time for this c*** lol

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

yeah 17 years of learning all the 'tricks of the trade' to appear honest but in fact trying every tactic possible to obfuscate, evade, embellish, distort and in the end extract as much as they can while leaving the consumer frustrated, bewildered, exhausted, and with a bad taste. the salesperson then has the GALL to ask for a perfect score for the sales process.

Johnhav430

It's amazing if you look at some of the youtubes on how to overcome objections....

"But after my divorce and my kids all leaving me to side with their mom, I now live in a 400 sq. ft. apartment with limited parking. I don't think a 2018 Suburban with the mega tow pkg. is for me? Plus I am not employed right now and $87,000 just seems like it's too much."

Bet they will overcome the above and that Suburban moves off the lot!

mmarshall

That's one area where MD is ahead of VA. Maryland limits the amount that dealers can charge for that...VA doesn't. (I think the law in MD right now is a $199 maximum). In VA, though, the sales tax on a new car is a little lower...so at at least it may partly balance out, depending on where the vehicle is going to be registered....usually the sales tax charged for the state the vehicle will be registered in, and not necessarily where it was bought.

That out-of-state sales-tax law, BTW, is one I'd like to see changed, even independent of actual tax dollar-amounts. IMO, if you live in one state and bought your car out of state, it's none of that state's business until you actually register it. Why should both MD and VA (and other states) have their hands in each other's pockets, collecting sales-tax on vehicles NOT sold within their own borders? The state you live in is charging you for the registration/title...so they are already getting money out of it (and both states get additional money from the safety-inspection charges required on new vehicles in the state, if they were sold out of state and brought in). IMO, it's a racket....but one we're stuck with, because, like with other taxes, it makes a significant amount of money for state and county governments, and is not likely to change.

Back to the processing fee, though, that's one thing, however, I do like about my local GM dealer in Virginia. Though the fee is substantially higher than the $199 limit that MD allows, it still undercuts that of many other local VA dealers by $100-200. (I've seen it as high as $799 at some shops)

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i've heard that kind of sob story from the SALESPERSON and how they'll be homeless if they don't sell me a car. or how their boss is all over them or they just need my sale to make their monthly bonus, blah blah...

mmarshall

87K? for a Suburban That would be difficult to imagine, even for a fully-loaded 4WD Premier version. But 70-80K is certainly possible....Premier models start at 66K.

mmarshall

Very simple.....go back and ask the boss yourself if that is the case. If the salesperson is lying (the majority are honest, but there are some unscrupulous ones), he or she will probably quickly retract or modify the story. If there's one thing that many people, even dishonest ones, fear, it's being embarrassed in front of their bosses....or for that matter, dishonest bosses being embarrassed in front of their employees.

Fortunately, even typically getting a new car every 5 or 6 years like I do, I have not had to deal with many truly dishonest people.....though a couple of them were borderline, especially back in the 80s and 90s when I was driving Mazdas.

Johnhav430

I live in PA and purchased a used Lexus in NYS--I was suprised that the NYS dealership handled my PA tags--that was a new one for me. They said they can handle virtually every state except for a few. But, when it came to sales tax, I said whoa, my tax is not 8%, it's 6%. He just went on google to get the 8%. Guess long story short the sales tax must be paid on order to obtain the tags. Another interesting thing, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, cars don't leave the lot in NYS without an insurance card reflecting the VIN. In PA, they don't care, and basically say your current policy covers the vehicle for up to 30 days. Where I think this is gray, is, what if you're financing? That institution will usually want to confirm there is full coverage.

Eventually, a FedEx came with a PA plate. A few days later, a check from the dealership was mailed for the refund for obtaining the tags. they still charged something, I don't remember what it was. My dad is the type who will not pay $0.01 for any of the stuff including registration--he is willing to come back another day with the tags himself to avoid. But again, they don't want him doing that because they want the car gone from the lot right here, right now.

My insurance agent confirmed the 30-day scenario, also, if changes are made within 30 days of a renewal, no credits, no refunds...I said I add a Bentley convertible 28 days before my policy renews, you wont charge me? He said believe it or not, no. HUH?

I remember a case Barringer v. Griffes when I was in grad school, where VT was double dipping on the taxes. They eventually lost.

p.s. just remembered once in my life I held a MSO for a Porsche and I got the tags myself (I was thinking I believe the car is more valuable if I don't turn this paper in), guess back then I followed in my dad's footsteps, kinda like not paying property tax to escrow back when I had a mortgage...

mmarshall

Good example, John. That's exactly the type of case I was talking about....car sold in NY, but PA ultimately getting the sales-tax on it. And remember, PA gets additional money, besides the sales-tax, for the registration/title-work. However, that part of it is fair, since PA issues the registration, not NY.

Johnhav430

Another thing I think that is gray....they issued a interstate in transit permit, computerized and even had a real registration document, I think it only cost $12.50, good for a month. Technically, the way it reads, this is to transport the vehicle to my residence, and that's it. But I drove around for about 20 days with it, car was insured properly. I asked a NJ state trooper buddy why wouldn't anyone stop me, at least to see that it's on the up and up? He said chances are it is, and not worth their while....my point is anybody can print something and place it in their rear glass and drive around....I thought in Cali. and formerly NJ, cars drove off the dealers lot with blanks, meaning the dealer name in the license plate area, and nothing more?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

you have an answer for everything... this assumes the boss is likely to tell you the truth? he (or she to be pc) will say whatever to get you to buy.

Sulu

Some people live in an ideal world where everybody is honest and will gladly answer all your questions truthfully.