mmarshall

Why not wait and see what actually happens before you make predictions? And, like I just said above, the chances are that you will still have your preferred method somewhere, though you might have to drive a little further to get to one of those dealerships, so you burn up a couple of dollars worth of gas LOL.

SW17LS

It's a pilot program, if it stays a pilot program and there are dealers that do it both ways then I don't care, but the risk is that it won't stay a pilot program. If dealers see they can control the process better by doing it this way, they will adopt it. The concern is that eventually *all* Lexus dealers will be this way. So you bet, when it comes up I'm going to voice my displeasure because I will NOT buy a Lexus this way because I know I am overpaying. If this is the only way to buy a Lexus, I will no longer purchase Lexus vehicles. Full stop. They read this forum.

mmarshall

The decisions will probably be made more at the corporate, rather than the franchise level. Lexus, as a manufacturer, tends to be very strict over how they allow individual Lexus franchises to run their businesses. For example, I complained, for years, that new -vehicle inventory (by Lexus's own policy) was not shown on Lexus dealer web-sites (only used and CPOs). The idea was that a Lexus rep or salesperson would do your searching for you. No thanks....like you and your haggling, I'd rather do my own searching. Finally, that was changed a few years ago.

SW17LS

It's not that simple. Franchise laws in the US Means Lexus can't have that level of control over dealers, they don't have the level of control you think they do. Franchisees have to adopt this.

Your issue was a technology issue. They simply provided a better website tech issue for dealerships.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

next car i get i'm gonna pay for sw15ls to come to florida to negotiate it for me. i'd rather give the money to him than the dealer.

gengar

You may sometimes pay less than those agencies right now. As typical, you refuse to understand that if the end-user dealership negotiation scheme is ended, then the system changes significantly; for example, costs to the producer will drop and incentives for the dealer to artificially boost sticker in an attempt to increase negotiation margins will also be eliminated, etc. etc. etc. Your assumption that MSRP and end-user value will stay the same, especially long-term if the end-user dealership negotiation scheme is eliminated, shows a complete lack of understanding of how businesses operate in a competitive market and how costs are built into pricing.

End-user negotiation schemes are designed for nothing more than to make the end user feel better about a transaction. They are certainly not designed to give the end user the opportunity for better prices. It's nothing more than a sales gimmick and it's sad so many people fall for it, hook line and sinker.

As I've mentioned before in these threads, federal judicial precedent allows producers to set minimum price levels, including for franchisees.

SW17LS

Free trip to FL with no kids? Sold! I'll even detail it for you afterwards for a pina colada!

I don't "refuse to understand", I just disagree with you. You will never convince me that reducing competition will reduce prices. You may as well be telling me we live on mars.

Johnny Mayday

Honestly, I think that must be the most frustrating thing about being in the car sales business. If you're a decent dude who isn't trying to screw people, it must really get to you!

SW17LS

Yeah I always say its a two way street, consumers bring a lot of the negative experience on themselves. Part of being a good negotiator is knowing whats possible, I'm not trying to steal the car, I'm trying to pays little for it as the market will allow. People go in and they throw out a totally unreasonable price they've done no research into coming up with, and they're "crooks" for not taking it.

gengar

The issue is that your disagreement is based on your refusal to acknowledge that an alternative system will have different costs and different incentives. You can't just plug your ears and keep repeating over and over that pricing and value and everything else is going to remain the exact same when the whole system changes. If that's not "refusing to understand", I don't know what is.

geko29

While this is true, it's of marginal value for two reasons:

1) The inverse statement is undeniably true. Less negotiation DOES guarantee you WON'T get a lower price.
2) In most reasonably-populated places, most dealers for most brands do not have a monopoly. If the manager wants full sticker or close to it, bully for him. I'll go 10 minutes down the road and get somebody to beat his price by $7k.

Torii

I owned a nissan that broke down in canada...believe it or not the N. american waranty only means USA. Nissan did end up paying my entire bill including airfare to go pick up broken down 10k mile 50grand vehicle. I respect that. Will Lexus do that? dont know cause never had 1 break yet, leaving me stranded in boonies. I dont penny pinch like I used too. but good for all those that do.

mmarshall

+1. There are definitely honest and decent people in the car-sales business....that's a given, though sometimes you have to hunt for them. I had the nice experience of buying my Subaru Outback from one of them (as my brother did, years ago, with his Subaru Impreza, from the same guy). Too bad I couldn't say the same for the experience I had buying my Lexus IS300 (which I traded in on the Outback, 5 years later). The Lexus salesperson himself was a very nice guy...but he was hamstrung by a manager who was clearly out to profit from me. Anyhow, at the time, I wanted that particular Lexus IS....there was only one bright-yellow one in the Eastern U.S. equipped the way I wanted it (no sunroof, all-season tires)....on a cargo ship, headed to New York harbor. So, I agreed to the sales-conditions, even though I wasn't totally satisfied with the deal (something Steve would probably never do LOL). Anyhow, despite that B.S. with the paperwork, I did not go home disappointed. I enjoyed that car for five years....as long as the roads weren't slick. I decided, then, though, that that would be my last RWD car.

(That, BTW, was when I first joined CL..when i owned that IS300)

geko29

I would argue that negotiated "sale" price matters MORE in a lease, because it's essentially a leveraged transaction. To keep the math straightforward: If you purchase a $100k car outright and get $10k off, you've saved 10%, and your monthly payment is 9/10ths of what it would be at full sticker. If you lease a $100k car with a 60% residual and get $10k off, you've saved 25%. Your monthly payment is just 3/4 of what it would have been at full price.

mmarshall

What you say is correct from a strict-math point of view, on the lease-payments themselves. But a complicating factor (though not associated with the lease-deal itself), at least for those who use their vehicles for business according to the IRS code, is the deductibility of the lease payments on their taxes. The more you pay on a lease, of course, the more you can deduct, and you will be getting back at least a part of those payments each April (or whenever you file your taxes). That's one of the the things that keeps the luxury-vehicle business going....Many who cannot afford to, or who don't want either the high monthly payments of a purchase or having to write one big check that will clean out their bank-account, choose the lease-option instead. In Steve's case, of course, as a real-estate agent, driving clients around looking at homes, he's in an ideal position, with that LS460, to take advantage of that tax-loophole.