Lexus expanding the "no haggle" programs
#46
Super Moderator
What you say is correct from a strict-math point of view, on the lease-payments themselves. But a complicating factor (though not associated with the lease-deal itself), at least for those who use their vehicles for business according to the IRS code, is the deductibility of the lease payments on their taxes. The more you pay on a lease, of course, the more you can deduct, and you will be getting back at least a part of those payments each April (or whenever you file your taxes).
#47
Lexus Test Driver
What you say is correct from a strict-math point of view, on the lease-payments themselves. But a complicating factor (though not associated with the lease-deal itself), at least for those who use their vehicles for business according to the IRS code, is the deductibility of the lease payments on their taxes. The more you pay on a lease, of course, the more you can deduct, and you will be getting back at least a part of those payments each April (or whenever you file your taxes). That's one of the the things that keeps the luxury-vehicle business going....Many who cannot afford to, or who don't want either the high monthly payments of a purchase or having to write one big check that will clean out their bank-account, choose the lease-option instead. In Steve's case, of course, as a real-estate agent, driving clients around looking at homes, he's in an ideal position, with that LS460, to take advantage of that tax-loophole.
#48
Lexus Fanatic
No. Of course one will not get it all back....I don't know how you could assume I was saying that. Nor was I implying that. I just said that in some circumstances, people will get some of it back. In those situations, it's at least better than nothing.
#49
Lexus Fanatic
Oh, I agree......(see my reply to gengar, just above). But when you do pay more, at least in some business-related circumstances, you won't necessarily lose all of it....some of it will come back with your yearly tax-refund (or lower your tax-bill, if you owe). But, no, I agree...if you can get a lower lease-payment, take it.
#50
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by gengar
The issue is that your disagreement is based on your refusal to acknowledge that an alternative system will have different costs and different incentives. You can't just plug your ears and keep repeating over and over that pricing and value and everything else is going to remain the exact same when the whole system changes. If that's not "refusing to understand", I don't know what is.
It's not rocket science. You have a wholesale price for a car, and a retail price. In between the two is the dealers profit. The dealer wants to keep as much of that as possible, and we as the consumers want to spend as little as possible. Dealerships aren't going to adopt systems that provide less profit for them and more savings for us. All a system like this does is give the dealer and the manufacturer greater control over what sales price we as consumers pay. Right now, they're at the mercy of the free market, if they set the only sales price then we as consumers have to accept it, or buy another brand of car.
The experiences with LexusPlus are out there, they are on this forum now. These dealers charge considerably more than competing dealers are willing to sell cars for. Look in the model specific forums as members encounter dealers doing this.
#51
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by gengar
You are seriously arguing that people will opt for a higher lease payment so they can "save" a fraction of that higher payment on tax deductions?
But otherwise no, spending money you don't have to just to get a tax deduction would be stupid.
#52
Lexus Test Driver
Agreed 100%, it's far from rocket science to understand that prices change and consumer value changes when systemic overhaul causes costs and incentive to change. But you stated the problem yourself - you refuse even to acknowledge the possibility that these things change.
Then again, the mere fact that you could even suggest that an entire industry composed of nothing but middlemen could possibly cause end-user prices to drop may indicate that perhaps it is rocket science, at least to some.
Then again, the mere fact that you could even suggest that an entire industry composed of nothing but middlemen could possibly cause end-user prices to drop may indicate that perhaps it is rocket science, at least to some.
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Dealerships aren't going to adopt systems that provide less profit for them and more savings for us.
#54
Lexus Fanatic
With all the research methods today. I doubt prices are going to be higher. I also don't think the prices will be anywhere near MSRP. I also don't believe an all haggle system will succeed. I am glad to see they have both system available.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 05-18-17 at 08:07 PM.
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed 100%, it's far from rocket science to understand that prices change and consumer value changes when systemic overhaul causes costs and incentive to change. But you stated the problem yourself - you refuse even to acknowledge the possibility that these things change.
Then again, the mere fact that you could even suggest that an entire industry composed of nothing but middlemen could possibly cause end-user prices to drop may indicate that perhaps it is rocket science, at least to some.
Then again, the mere fact that you could even suggest that an entire industry composed of nothing but middlemen could possibly cause end-user prices to drop may indicate that perhaps it is rocket science, at least to some.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Depends on how much they want to satisfy customers. This isn't the 1950s any more....or even the 1980s. There is enormous pressure, nowadays, to do well in the Consumer-Reports and J.D. Power customer-satisfaction surveys. The sales-experience satisfaction for customers is a significant part of those surveys
#56
Lexus Fanatic
I agree. The no haggle system to me is pretty much the same as the buying agency system. I would honestly like to see a good scholarly study comparing the two methods. Something tells me that the no haggling set up will be a little more than the negotiation method but I don't think by a lot more.
With all the research methods today. I doubt prices are going to be higher. I also don't think the prices will be anywhere near MSRP. I also don't believe an all haggle system will succeed. I am glad to see they have both system available.
With all the research methods today. I doubt prices are going to be higher. I also don't think the prices will be anywhere near MSRP. I also don't believe an all haggle system will succeed. I am glad to see they have both system available.
Not only that, but many customers today want (or expect dealerships to have all kinds of amenities......coffee/latte machines, snack bars, play areas for the kiddies, car washes, etc..... And, of course, I like to get my (and my guest's) supply of free D.C. Auto-Show passes each year, which are given out at local-area dealerships......each regular free pass is worth $12 or more, with the VIP show passes up to $48 apiece). That kind of stuff doesn't come as a free lunch....dealerships probably couldn't afford most of that if they charged rock-bottom on every sale.
#57
Lexus Test Driver
I agree. The no haggle system to me is pretty much the same as the buying agency system. I would honestly like to see a good scholarly study comparing the two methods. Something tells me that the no haggling set up will be a little more than the negotiation method but I don't think by a lot more.
Under a system where the dealers actually have to move cars without negotiation, there's no incentive for this BS. In order to sell cars, Lexus will have to option the cars the way the end consumer wants them and price the cars the way the end consumer wants them.
The incentives are all messed up in the current system - because the negotiation scheme is nothing more than a sales gimmick. As I've said before, it's like the shady kiosks at the outlet mall that say "50% off today" but those signs are up every day. Be naive enough and you will feel good about getting a deal "today". To me, it's amazing the lengths people will put themselves through just to have a utterly faux feel-good feeling.
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by gengar
The incentives are all messed up in the current system - because the negotiation scheme is nothing more than a sales gimmick. As I've said before, it's like the shady kiosks at the outlet mall that say "50% off today" but those signs are up every day. Be naive enough and you will feel good about getting a deal "today". To me, it's amazing the lengths people will put themselves through just to have a utterly faux feel-good feeling.
How is comparison son shopping offers from competing dealers, using that competition to reach a bottom price and purchasing the car the same as what you describe?!
#59
Lexus Test Driver
The intention of Lexus Plus isn't to fool customers into thinking that there is a deal today that won't be there tomorrow. But given how much you've had to reach for straws throughout this thread, I'm not at all surprised by your comment.
#60
Lexus Fanatic
LOL, whatever you say.