SW17LS

I'm not worried about what other people are able to negotiate. Most people do it wrong by going into one dealer and sitting there and trying to negotiate in person, you have no leverage that way and those customers are going to pay more. I try and give people advice here and tell them how to best go about it, but everybody's on their own.

As to "my ulterior motives" oh please lol. What ulterior motives? I'm a consumer and I want the freedom to be able to have independent dealers compete for my business so I can pay less. How sinister.

My question would be gengar you're pushing this so hard and are so dismissive and insulting to people who don't think this is a good idea, what is YOUR ulterior motive?! You say you have no intention of buying a Lexus again anytime soon, why do you care what they do? I buy one every 2-3 years.

mmarshall

I didn't mention your ulterior motives, Steve......you replied to the wrong poster. I only mentioned the haggle-vs.-price relationship.

SW17LS

I was responding to gengar, that's why I referenced him by name. Hard to multi-quote on a phone.

gengar

First, Lexus is moving to a no-haggle sales scheme. That's the reality. I don't need to push this on Lexus or anyone; they've decided that all on their own.

Second, I've already stated I could care less what sales scheme Lexus or anyone else uses. With Lexus specifically, I have absolutely nothing to gain or lose - again, as I've already stated - because I have no interest in purchasing any current or announced Lexus models.

Finally, I am not at all dismissive of people who are skeptical of the no-haggle scheme, and I've been happy to engage them throughout this thread. What I have been dismissive of is your continual, irrelevant or outlandish (if not absolutely ludicrous) reasoning and attempted justifications. I'd reject them regardless of which side you were attempting to promote.

SW17LS

I don't see how my viewpoint is at all outlandish or off topic, what have I said that's outlandish? I believe that going to a no haggle system will reduce competition between dealers on price, because prices will be standardized in a geographic area. For instance, now I can get quotes from 5 local dealers and select the one willing to offer the best price. If this becomes the standard for Lexus dealers, prices won't be much different between dealers in a similar geographic area...which I feel will mean we will pay more. Less competition overwhelmingly means higher prices for consumers. I don't think that my reasoning is outlandish here.

gengar

Dude. You've literally posted in this thread (post 50) that introducing an industry of middlemen to the buying process will necessarily reduce consumer prices. It absolutely boggles the mind anyone could even think of such an argument, much less state it publicly.

Look, I get that you don't want Lexus dealerships to change. I get that you enjoy negotiating. I get that it makes you feel good when you get a price lower than invoice. All the more power to you. It doesn't mean that you have to say some crazy stuff to defend it.

SW17LS

I do not see how anything I've said is crazy lol. Yes, I do believe independent competing dealers would reduce prices for consumers for Teslas. May cost Tesla profit. I think it's naive to expect that a company will pass savings gleaned from the lack of a dealer network on to consumers.

I don't love negotiating, and I don't do it to feel good. I do it to know that I've got a fair price for the car by comparing offers from people competing for my business. Does this all make me "insane" as you've described me? Ridiculous.

gengar

OK. Enough said.

patgilm

You know what, I have no idea what the no haggle price in my area would be or whether it would be close to what I paid. However, based on the numbers the other dealer was giving me they were easily $3,000 more than what I paid. This dealer doesn't give the best deals so I have never bought a car from them in 15 years that I have been driving Lexus'. I would sometimes give them an opportunity but they usually aren't that close to what I could get elsewhere so I usually don't even bother shopping there. Would no haggle pricing with that dealer provide a price close to what I can haggle, not likely unless all the other dealers in the area were doing the same thing.

At the same time I leased my IS, I was looking at an Audi S3 that I really wanted and it was a similar deal, about $8-9k off MSRP. If that dealer was a no haggle dealer, I have no doubt in my mind the price wouldn't be close to what I was able to negotiate.

I am the same as SW15LS, I don't like haggling but I work hard for my money so I try and get the best deal I can. I think even if Lexus dealers in my area adopted no haggling, people could still haggle, it would just cause me to make a few phone calls. No different than people and even dealers that say Rolex's or high end appliances (Wolf/Subzero) aren't allowed to be discounted, I have negotiated discounts on them (with the exception of the new Daytona).

LexBob2

So, if Lexus Plus becomes more widespread, what will differentiate one dealer from another in areas where there are multiple dealers?

Customer service? As I understand it, there is one point of contact through the entire process. Personnel who are better trained?
Service Department? Buyers who buy or lease might be more comfortable jumping to another dealer for service since there wouldn't be many concerns about loyalty to a particular sales team.
Convenience? No need to go any further than you have to get a new Lexus, unless a dealer further away has the car you want in inventory.
Trade ins? Is this an area where individual dealers have the flexibility to "sweeten the deal" with a better offer than another dealer?

Overall an interesting dynamic if Lexus Plus spreads around the country.

SW17LS

I'll save you a cot in the asylum lol

gengar

Again, just to be clear - Lexus Plus is a no-haggle system, not a one-price system. A Lexus Plus dealer can still compete with other Lexus Plus dealers on price.

SW17LS

But, each individual deal they don't. They'll look at pricing in a geographic area and set it to be competitive, but they're not going to be as competitive as one consumer at the point of imminent sale on a specific car where they can go that extra mile to secure that one individual sale.

Dealers essentially do this now. Lots of dealers have a "internet price" or a "mark down price" on every car which is displayed on the car. You can do significantly better than this price now though with little effort. If all dealers adopt LexusPlus, you won't have this additional level of leverage.

Other part of this is the sales price is only one part of the deal. You're still going to have to negotiate trade values, leasing rates which dealers ALWAYS inflate, additional warranties etc. There is still going to be negotiating.

Sulu

I fixed it for you.

I find it arrogant that someone can believe that they are entitled to the lowest price on the purchase of a car, and all other people be damned, simply because those people do not haggle or do not want to haggle or do not know how to haggle, or simply do not wish to haggle. Those people who do not haggle are unfairly subsidizing the average prices -- and therefore the profit -- of the dealer, in my opinion.

And then there is the thought that if I believed I got the lowest price because I believe that I am the best haggler, someone else is likely to think as I do. If so, am I truly getting the best price available, or is there someone else out there who was able to cut another $1 or $2 off the price?

I have reviewed the information published online by Lexus about Lexus Plus. I have come to the conclusion that there is a lot of misunderstanding and misconceptions about it.

The prime misconception seems to be that Lexus Plus is a one-price model and not just a no-haggle model. A one-price model is a no-haggle model but a no-haggle model is not necessarily a one-price model.

My initial issue with Lexus Plus, prior to reading the material and prior to learning that it is NOT a one-price model, is that the Lexus central sales office would set the sales price for all dealers (as apparently the Access Toyota program in Canada attempted to do a number of years ago). If that were the case, dealers in large, expensive cities like New York, Chicago and Los Angeles would have to sell at the same low price (that may not be able to cover local costs and guarantee a reasonable profit) as a dealer in much cheaper Iowa, for example; or a dealer in Iowa would be forced to sell for the same high (uncompetitive for Iowa) price as New York, Chicago or Los Angeles.

In a one-price model, all dealers sell for the same price regardless of local costs (high or low) and local competition (or lack of competition). But with Lexus Plus, each dealer sets the price that they wish to sell at, taking into account local costs (dealership building lease costs, living costs, salary and wage costs, etc.), local competition (what other automakers are selling for in the area) and any incentives available at the time (currently available incentives must be factored into the no-haggle Lexus Plus price).

I have no doubt that a good dealer is currently doing this costs analysis regularly, so they know how much (how low) they can sell for and still make a reasonable profit; the difference now will be that the outcome of the analysis is a transparent price. A good businessperson running a good dealership will likely be making the equivalent profit after adopting Lexus Plus as they did prior to adopting Lexus Plus; the no-haggle price set by the good dealer principal will likely be the average of all sales prices prior to the adoption of Lexus Plus. With Lexus Plus, all buyers contribute equally to the profit, whereas before Lexus Plus, those who did not haggle would be subsidizing the prices of those who successfully haggled to the absolute minimum price.

A no-haggle policy is a fairer policy, all around. It is about time that the new car sales model was brought out of the 18th- and 19th-Centuries, into the 21st-Century.

SW17LS

The problem is that "fair" benefits the lowest common denominator, and penalizes those that have put the effort and energy into negotiating an excellent price. Those of us who do negotiate well and get good deals because of it are going to pay more, while people who don't do that are going to pay less.

Personally, if somebody wanders in a purchases something as huge a purchase as a car without doing any research or being prepared to put a good deal together for themselves, they deserve to overpay.