It's clearly not in the minivan segment. If it was, all makes would have it. Every automaker is pumping out SUVs of every size and shape to meet market demand; only Toyota keeps making AWD minivans. After all these year, you have to trust that all other minivan producers have a good amount of market research data that tell them AWD isn't worth it in this segment.

 

May very well be the case

 

Just a few comments in defense of the Toyota Sienna

-22 combined MPG across the board for Toyota while the KIA gets by with 20 combined and drops to 19 combined in top spec model. Not bad for a older Toyota platform or perhaps the newer KIA platform is just not as good. The new Honda Odyssey is also 22 MPG combined across the board.

-no power rear folding seats in the KIA, non removable second row seats in the KIA either (this might of changed recently)

-Toyota Sienna was a a Top Safety Pick Plus in 2015 while the KIA was a tier 2 level (this could of changed)

Comments from Car & Driver comparo where the all new KIA finished 3rd while the Sienna finished 1st http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...limited-page-4

"Toyota boasts that the renewed *Sienna’s unibody has an additional 142 spot welds throughout to enhance stiffness. It feels more like a Mercedes S-class than either of the other vans, with an isolated, imperturbable ride"

"Sedona sales have been dragging through lake-bottom muck for years, and Kia hasn’t sold more than 10,000 per annum since 2012." -wonder why?

" All three vans sport third rows that fold flat into wells behind the seat, but collapsing the Kia’s summons ghosts of Korea’s low-quality past. It’s by far the sloppiest mechanism, with a startling amount of wobble and play as the seat settles into its hold."Highs, Lows, and Verdict

KIA SedonaHighs:
The nose job, the bargain pricing, the hot-hatch braking—yes, really

Lows:
Frequent whiffs of cheapness, missing some important bells and whistles.

Verdict:
An uninspired take on an uninspiring concept.


Toyota Sienna

Highs:
As spacious and comfortable as your living room, rides like an S-class.

Lows:
The five seats behind yours are going to be infested with lunatics.

Verdict:
Exactly what it needs to be: a big box of uncut serenity


Looks to me like the Sienna is the better min-van.

 

In case you didn't notice, I've decided to trade my Sedona, so discussing the Sienna in relation to the Sedona doesn't really make a lot of sense. I can certainly see why somebody would choose the Sienna over the Sedona. I personally have been happy with my Sedona for the most part, Sienna has the same problem with third row access, and if you have lounge chairs in the Sienna like I have in the Sedona they cannot be removed easily either. Big reason why I chose the Sienna over the Sedona was material and finish quality, which is MUCH better in the Sedona. The Sienna does drive nicer than the Sedona, but not the new Pacifica or Odyssey. The Sienna has more adaptable seating than the Sedona. Gas mileage is a low point in the Sedona also.

However, compared with these new vans the Sienna just doesn't compete. Only reason somebody would choose one over an Odyssey is if they have a thing for Toyota as a brand. Only reason to choose the Sienna over the Pacifica is reliability, but you get that in the new Odyssey and it's a much better vehicle.

Anybody who who thinks the Sienna drives like a Mercedes S Class has never driven a Mercedes S Class lol

 

i hate to say it but the new D4S V6 with the 8-speed is really a massive downgrade from the previous year. drive a 2016 and a 2017 sienna back to back and it's like wtf why's there no more torque? and why is it revving so high? once you actually get up to speed the sienna really flies lol but the 2017 highlander and sienna are both very sluggish feeling at low speeds and the shift points are just retarded... even under very mild throttle they rev to like 4500 before shifting and even under cruise control they rev ridiculously high for no reason. i'm guessing fuel economy has a lot to do with why this new one doesn't take off like the old one did, but if you're reading this toyota, it's LITERALLY costing you sales! a good majority of the people when they test drive the cars will ask: "and how much horsepower does is have again?" as if almost skeptical that it really makes 295hp

i'm just worried that the 2018 camry will suffer from this same sluggishness, because the current camry V6 is actually a super sleeper that will genuinely smoke most other cars out there lol, no joke!

 

yea seriously haha i'm not claiming to be the rightful heir of Akio Toyoda or anything, i just happen to sell his products at this point in my life

 

No offense, Stroock, if you sell Toyotas for a living, but I have noticed this, too. Toyota does make a well-engineered, reliable, durable drivetrain, but, compared to many other brands, there is noticeable skimping on the quality of much of the interior hardware, where many parts seem like they are quite lightweight plastic and/or have a loose feel to them. They are getting especially clobbered by Kia and Hyundai in that department, which offer much more solidly-built interiors (and thud-solid door closings) in the same price range. The Koreans also have a much better warranty.

 

Update: C&D now ranks the minivan segment 1. Pacifica 2.Odyssey 3. Sienna.

 

Interesting they would put the Pacifica first...

 

I was surprised too but looking at their tests as well as a Long Term Test vehicle they seem to really like it.

http://www.caranddriver.com/list-rev...ysler/pacifica

 

Its a really nice van no question, but the Odyssey is also very nice and I would think just plain expected reliability would give the edge to the Odyssey.

Of course this may change when they get more seat time in the new Odyssey.

 

I drove the 2016 to Toronto and really thought it was a 4 cyl--I thought it was part of that deal where you can now get highlanders etc. with a base inline 4. Would I take the mpgs in conjunction with the lack of torque or pep? In a rental, sure, I mean even though I'm getting reimbursed by my employer, I still don't waste fuel. What doesn't make sense I guess is I go to Costco if there is one. That's going a little too far I suppose....

 

if Toyota were losing money on the AWD Siennas, or if they weren't selling, they probably wouldn't be kept in production. But they are still in the American market. Just because Steve doesn't want (or need) AWD doesn't mean that other customers don't. Not everyone with a larger family wants to have to climb up and and down into high-stance larger AWD SUVs.

 

It's not about me, it's about what people are building. If there were a huge market for AWD minivans, why would companies like Honda and Chrysler, who sell a TON of minivans not offer one? The answer is they would.

 

The point I was making, though, is that Toyota (apparently) sells enough of them to make money on them. And, of course, one can't necessarily just slap on a couple of extra driveshafts/differentials underneath an existing vehicle and instantly have AWD. The design of the fold-under seats (if applicable), fuel tank, cargo floor, spare-tire well, suspension, exhaust-pipes, and a number of other factors have to be taken into account.