mmarshall

Just wanted to point out that some of that is meaningless for those who don't make enough. And I did agree with you that for those who actually have the $$$$$, that money buys generally more car today than it did 20 years ago.

Another interesting point is that while some of those extra features are in vehicles today by consumer demand, others are there by Government safety and emission-edicts.

Well, yes and no. They usually take out a loan (some loans today stretch a long as 7-8 years to keep monthly payments down), or do a lease, which gives them more car for the same monthly payment. Relatively few people can afford, like me and some others, to sit down and just fire off a check for virtually any car they would want.

SW17LS

People have always financed and leased cars. That's not new.

FatherTo1

That inflation calculator definitely is an eyebrow raiser, Steve! I can kind of see what mmarshall was saying though. Sure, a lot of cars are still being purchased but more and more are being leased. Very interesting indeed that car prices have stayed relatively flat but we certainly do not feel we can afford a new car anymore compared with 20 years ago. More of people's incomes are gobbled up with mortgages and student loans. Our mortgage is lower than some people's car lease and less than our student loans. I am shocked by the inflation findings but if lease trends are any indication, people can't really afford new cars like they used to. Then again, maybe it's a conscious choice since people also don't hold onto cars, phones, careers, or marriages as long as they used to. Maybe people just realize leasing is a better fit for them. I know I strayed off topic too, it's too interesting of a discussion not to. Thanks for the inflation lesson...i still can't get over the fact that cars actually are NOT more expensive. When I bought my Tundra new 10 years ago I ended up with a $400 loan for three years. I still think that's a lot to this day. I guess we just don't feel comfortable with more than 300-400 a month for any car, if financing, and so a lot of new cars appear very expensive to us, especially when optioned the way we would like.

SW17LS

I remember 80% of luxury cars being leased in the 90s. That's nothing new either. My dad leased cars in the 80s.

FatherTo1

Yes, that is not surprising to see folks having to lease expensive luxury cars then and now. But leasing has also increased the past few years on mainstream vehicles, partly due to people not being able to afford the new car any other way like they could in the past.

mmarshall

It's probably not exaggerating to say that leasing goes a long way towards keeping luxury-car dealerships in business. Even though I live in a notoriously high-income area, the sheer number of high-line luxury vehicles I see every day indicates that there's a lot of leasing going on, even in this area. Some Virginia counties make ownership of an expensive vehicle even worse with the annual Personal Property Tax, which is levied on the assessment of the vehicle's KBB value each January 1. The P.P. tax used to be even worse...we now pay only about 40% or so of the former tax, instead of the full 100% like we did years ago.


It's also no secret that some people lease expensive vehicles for two reasons....First, if they use them in business (according to IRS rules), they can deduct the lease-payments, and, Second, they want to have an impressive vehicle to drive clients in. Nothing wrong with that, of course....all perfectly legal.

Johnhav430

My general rule of thumb which I cheated on, at the time, with my 335i purchase, is the car should be 25% of gross salary. I'm just old fashioned, $70k is a lot for a car, to me. It isn't to many if not most. I'm making numbers up, but I think it's hilarious for a person earning $150k gross, to spend $70k on a car. There has to be other places they can spend it on, or save it for that matter....back when the E46 was out, BMW said the avg. buyer was 37 y.o. and had an income of $140k. I bet those numbers are lower today on a 3 series, both of them. That's progress, but for the mfg.

mmarshall

I don't blame you for cheating on that one LOL. The last-generation 335, in particular, before they switched from hydraulic to electric steering, was addictive in its driving feel....it did, in fact, earn the "Ultimate Driving Machine" moniker. I considered buying one myself....though, in the end, I found that other wants/needs took priority.

geko29

Lol, I guess some of us have to grow into it. I was 22 and making $60k when I bought my E46. Now that I've had my E90 for five years I've finally reached those figures.

Johnhav430

I'm not going to say what I made when I was 22 (a lot less than you)....hahahahahahahaha all I know is just last month, my buddy revealed what he made when we were both 22, and he made like 60% more...I was like no way ()*&)(&*()^&*(^$*(Q^#&*(Q^R(*!!!! His whole life he's had the gift of gab, and I think it matters a lot when you are just starting out (he told me the story of how some new guy made more than he did so he typed a letter stating his salary would need to be adjusted upwards by COB Friday (I was like **** you had ****!!)

ssmoked

I disagree with that figure. It all comes down to priorities. I know many many people live in huge houses with expensive furniture and drive crappy cars with rust. To others, cars mean more than anything else (house, jewelry, vacations, Whole Foods, furniture, partying, eating out....) and thats how they can afford a 70k car comfortably with 140k salary

ragingf80

The ultimate 4 door for me is the M3, which is why I got one. I also considered the Hellcat, Maserati Ghibli, LS460, BMW 550i and 740i, C63 AMG, and Audi S4.

Hellcat - I've yet to own an american car. I came close to getting it, but in the end I couldn't picture myself driving one.
Maserati Ghibli - Lipstick on a pig. Sounded great, but it's actually not that nice a car.
LS460 - Not sporty enough for me at the time
BMW 550i - I was warned to stay away from the BMW V8
740i - Would have to be stripped to fit into my budget, and I'd rather get the LS460
C63 AMG - The exterior styling didn't make me feel like my $70k+ was justified. If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I want it to look dramatically different than the C class. Plus the interior didn't appeal to me.
Audi S4 - with no RS4 in the US, the S4 was my only choice and it just didn't give me the driving experience I wanted.

M3 - I always wanted one, certainly checked the most boxes on the list! Fast, raw, sounded great (with the M Performance Exhaust), drove great (to me at least), and looks great.

Johnhav430

I think I progressed with car buying over the years, put 30% down and financed for 60 mos. on my first car. 50% down and 36 mos. on the 335. 75% down on the 3rd car but fell off the wagon and did 60 mos. But my wife and I split it so we paid it off in 24 mos. Last car the LS430 put 100% down (although it was a 11 y.o. car). I'm not so sure I ever want a car payment again, but realistically, I don't see how I could put more than 50% down on a nice car like say a M2. If I had discipline, what would change is my desire for the M2 (no 100% down, no dice), but I'm only human....it's a tough call. When I'm on the road, getting breakfast at hotels, I see some folks going for cereal or oatmeal over the eggs and sausage. That's discipline. Sometimes hard to apply the same to spending money...

SW17LS

I'll leave my money invested thank you lol

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i know the thread says "car" for $70k, but of course i'd want an suv.

so for $70k, hmm... mb gle?