Breakpoint

Here is an interesting article comparing most Lexus models to the upcoming Tesla Model 3 (due on sale in July). Note that this is some kind of magazine promoting electric vehicles so they are IMHO biased. I don't like the look of the Tesla front end, it just looks odd. I will also point out that for apartment and condo dwellers with no electric outlet near where they park, electric cars are not an option at this time. Also the model 3 does not appear to be targeted to luxury buyers. I prefer my ES350.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/02...xus-ct-hybrid/

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

interesting article. tesla has several obstacles to really being 'successful'.

1) charging infrastructure
2) range anxiety (see 1)
3) no dealers and legislative blocks to selling direct
4) losing money like a drunk on the stock exchange

i want them to succeed, but man they still have a rough road...

mmarshall

Bob Lutz has (correctly) pointed out that, while he personally likes Elon Musk and has a high opinion of him, no auto company in the history of the industry has ever survived in the long run with a system of company-owned stores and service facilities. It's just too much overhead. Even GM and Chrysler, who don't own their own retailers, had to be bailed out......Chrysler more than once.

Breakpoint

I agree. Also I have heard that replacement parts have very long delivery times, like 6 weeks in some cases since the repair infrastructure is not extensive.

LeX2K

1) rapidly becoming a non issue
2) still a problem
3) not sure how this will play out
4) all available cash is going into the new factory, I see this as a positive
GM and Chrysler went bankrupt selling the good old way so I put very little stock in what Lutz is saying.

Sulu

I think it is just the free-enterprise mindset that is prevalent in the USA that may prevent an automaker from selling its own cars. Mercedes-Benz Canada has a Retail Division that controls its corporate-owned dealerships (with service centres) in Toronto and Vancouver (the largest markets in Canada, with 50%+ of sales). There does not seem to be any problem here with company-owned stores.

If a dealership has a lot of overhead (and I am not saying that it would not), it would have to carry these costs regardless of who owns the dealerships -- franchisees or corporate.

mmarshall

In the U.S., some states simply won't allow it, period. Tesla is still tied up in a number of court cases, in some states, trying to get those laws overturned or exempted. These legal costs, of course, are also adding to the company's expenses.

mmarshall

Anyhow, back to the original-topic Tesla 3, some people (including the son of a friend of mine) have been waiting 15 months for theirs......since Tesla first started taking $1000 deposits for them in March of 2016. The last time I heard of anywhere near that long a wait was when another old friend of mine (a restaurant owner who has since retired) ordered a first-year Porsche Boxster in March of 1996 and did not take delivery until 13 months later, in April of 1997. The car was actually a year old when delivered LOL.

RXSF

Is charging infrastructure even an issue anymore with 200+ range batteries? I'd argue no. Charge at home, its that simple.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

of course it is if you want to go stay someplace away from home or go far away. having to wait many hours every 200 miles will make a journey WAY longer compared to just filling up with gas.

S2000toIS350

So you rent a car for road trips.

How many road trips do folks take a year?

The car doesn't make sense for traveling sales folks but is fine for regular commuters.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

don't know about others but i probably take half a dozen, figure 3-5 days each. so that would add about $2k a year to my ownership cost to cover rentals.

RXSF

Im imagining most people have a second car or are willing to rent for their road trips. I'd think Bit, you are an outlier in this case and obviously an electric car isn't right for you. For the millions of people who live in urban cities, who do not take road trips, electric cars make a lot of sense.

ragingf80

Extension cords are your friend if you an apartment or condo owner.

Your ES350 takes 8.1 sec to get to 60. The Model 3 does it in 5.6. Yes, it's not a luxury car. It's a small sporty electric car with a nameplate. It's proof that economic electric cars don't have to be boring and slow.

1) It gets better and better by the day in major cities, especially here in LA.
2) Again, getting better and better. These are commuter cars, not road trip cars. You can rent a car for that.
3) There is a dealer 5 min from my house, and 25 min from my office.
4) My TSLA stock is up almost 100 points since I bought them. It was a rough road in the beginning, but look at the trend in the last year.

LexBob2

C&D recorded a 5.8 0-60 in a 2015 ES350.