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What i enjoy about my BRZ and most BMWs like my M3 - is the amazing driving position.
They designed the driver to be part of the machine. There are no compromises to visibility, you sit low in the car with the steering column adjustment perfect for aggressive driving.
If you ever sat/driven 911 or any modern mid-engine supercar - they are so comfortable and forward/side visibility is not compromised.
Corvettes / Mustangs/ Camaros and new supra - you sit on like you are riding on top of the car and have poor sight lines almost everywhere.
Can someone get used to this - sure.
For some ppl seating position is not important or they value other things.
For me - the Supra doesn’t have many redeeming qualities.
yep. It is better than nothing, especially if they complain about the lack of sports cars.
They built a half-assed product with bunch of fake vents and compromised chassis for a coupe.
In 2yrs when sales are at Zero, they will say “see nobody buys sports cars”
Well 911, Mustangs, Miatas, Cotvettes all sell because they are great at what they do and cater to their customer base.
Toyota is cheap and lazy - consumers recognize this.
They built a half-assed product with bunch of fake vents and compromised chassis for a coupe.
In 2yrs when sales are at Zero, they will say “see nobody buys sports cars”
Well 911, Mustangs, Miatas, Cotvettes all sell because they are great at what they do and cater to their customer base.
Toyota is cheap and lazy - consumers recognize this.
I'v'e been a little schizo on this car. Hated it at first. Kind warmed up to it. Now I'm just not interested anymore. When the C8 prices come down from the stupidsphere, this car will be gone.
They built a half-assed product with bunch of fake vents and compromised chassis for a coupe.
In 2yrs when sales are at Zero, they will say “see nobody buys sports cars”
Well 911, Mustangs, Miatas, Cotvettes all sell because they are great at what they do and cater to their customer base.
Toyota is cheap and lazy - consumers recognize this.
Toyota has come along way since the MKIV era, they just aren't into fully committing to the sports car segment. The last fun car they built in house recently was the LFA and to them that was a flop. I loved the fact that Toyota built that car, the price is what it is but they showed they can do it. After that we got nothing they did in house sports car wise, FRS is cool but was just another partnership. I like the F cars but $97K msrp for a track edition RCF which is the top performer makes no sense to me I rather buy a GTR instead and the LC500 is cool but is just a cruiser. Toyota's stock has done very well since the MKIV days and maybe to them that's all that matters, their shareholders are happy. A in house Supra was probably seen as a risk that would cost them even though the other product lines Rav4, Camry etc...are doing well and would make up for it. Toyota's business approach is just different than other manufacturers, some would argue that's why they are #1. I love Toyota but they are just not giving their all to the sports car segment, it sucks but it is what it is. Now with the covid19 situation who knows what will change, some consumer spending habits may change in the short and long term. To put things in perspective below is my Supra and company issued Prius. The Prius is surprisingly a comfortable daily driver but it's hard to think this same company made the car in front of it. Many of my friends didn't believe I drove a Prius until this pic lol.
Originally Posted by Bob04
I'v'e been a little schizo on this car. Hated it at first. Kind warmed up to it. Now I'm just not interested anymore. When the C8 prices come down from the stupidsphere, this car will be gone.
Not everyone wants a mid-engine setup though, the C8 is the best bang for the buck out there imo. Once the Z variants get released they will be an even better option assuming prices aren't too crazy. A FR sports coupe still has it's place so that may give the Supra some wiggle room but who knows. Toyota didn't risk much investment so if and when the sales slow down they will move on.
If I'm not mistaken the BRZ/FRS will definitely still have a stick. Might be a nice alternative for having a fun car if one doesn't need the boldness of a Supra or Vette.....I could live with a 4 cyl turbo I guess if it's a fun car. At least that will give it modern day torque...
did fr-s come out with a manual first, or was it an automatic first? Toyota said they will bring a manual supra at some point. Probably along with 2.0L engine.
but still numbers do not lie: even fr-s is failing with sales.
Toyota has come along way since the MKIV era, they just aren't into fully committing to the sports car segment. The last fun car they built in house recently was the LFA and to them that was a flop. I loved the fact that Toyota built that car, the price is what it is but they showed they can do it. After that we got nothing they did in house sports car wise, FRS is cool but was just another partnership. I like the F cars but $97K msrp for a track edition RCF which is the top performer makes no sense to me I rather buy a GTR instead and the LC500 is cool but is just a cruiser. Toyota's stock has done very well since the MKIV days and maybe to them that's all that matters, their shareholders are happy. A in house Supra was probably seen as a risk that would cost them even though the other product lines Rav4, Camry etc...are doing well and would make up for it. Toyota's business approach is just different than other manufacturers, some would argue that's why they are #1. I love Toyota but they are just not giving their all to the sports car segment, it sucks but it is what it is. Now with the covid19 situation who knows what will change, some consumer spending habits may change in the short and long term. To put things in perspective below is my Supra and company issued Prius. The Prius is surprisingly a comfortable daily driver but it's hard to think this same company made the car in front of it.
Not everyone wants a mid-engine setup though, the C8 is the best bang for the buck out there imo. Once the Z variants get released they will be an even better option assuming prices aren't too crazy. A FR sports coupe still has it's place so that may give the Supra some wiggle room but who knows. Toyota didn't risk much investment so if and when the sales slow down they will move on.
technically LFA was not a flop as they knew they were losing money on every sale. It was a halo car R&D costs for which were distributed onto GS/IS and other models of the later years.
What i enjoy about my BRZ and most BMWs like my M3 - is the amazing driving position.
They designed the driver to be part of the machine. There are no compromises to visibility, you sit low in the car with the steering column adjustment perfect for aggressive driving.
If you ever sat/driven 911 or any modern mid-engine supercar - they are so comfortable and forward/side visibility is not compromised.
Corvettes / Mustangs/ Camaros and new supra - you sit on like you are riding on top of the car and have poor sight lines almost everywhere.
Can someone get used to this - sure.
For some ppl seating position is not important or they value other things.
For me - the Supra doesn’t have many redeeming qualities.
I didn't know you had a BRZ...those cars are pretty cool to drive and i'd only get a manual if i owned one. I was thinking of getting a beater BRZ or Miata in the future as I'd love the small car experience again. If I ever track a car again, i'd do the whole BRZ / Miata thing. Consumables are so cheap unlike these $50k+ sports cars like the Supra where tire replacements are over $1,200 and more if something breaks. These things are better reserved for canyon runs
I'v'e been a little schizo on this car. Hated it at first. Kind warmed up to it. Now I'm just not interested anymore. When the C8 prices come down from the stupidsphere, this car will be gone.
that is only, if assuming that the dual clutch tranny does not blow up at 10k miles, like it did with PowerShiete trannies.
technically LFA was not a flop as they knew they were losing money on every sale. It was a halo car R&D costs for which were distributed onto GS/IS and other models of the later years.
The LFA costs didn't sit well with some of the C suite folks is my understanding. Not sure if the costs were leveled out by the GS/IS and other model sales but no in house sports car came out after that.
yep. It is better than nothing, especially if they complain about the lack of sports cars.
The new Supra is really good car. I’ve tracked it on a road course in Texas and it really handles well. Half the people complaining about how horrible the car is haven’t even driven the car. Yes it’s a BMW. No i’m not in love with the idea that Toyota used BMW as a partner to build the Supra. But I’m glad to see a new sports car make it to market. I’d take this over the Porsche 4 cylinder 718 any day of the week. As far as people comparing this to the C8 not a fair comparison, GM benchmarked the Ferrari 458, Toyota/BMW bench marked the 718 Cayman and Mustang I believe they achieved their goal. It will sell in small quantities for its life’s span. Toyota already hit their sales goal last year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 500hp M4 straight six in this thing in 3 years.
The LFA costs didn't sit well with some of the C suite folks is my understanding. Not sure if the costs were leveled out by the GS/IS and other model sales but no in house sports car came out after that.
Times changed and people did not want to drive cheap sports cars. They demanded more for less, and predictably got less and less. Karma is a bi-tch I suppose
Toyota lead eng responsible for Supra 2020 has said that in order to design a new sports car, they would have to spend about 1-1.3 BILLION dollars to bring it to the market with all regulations and stuff. So, for just a new inline 6, I would say it would cost about 500-600M dollars to R&D.... minimum.
Toyota knew that they wont be able to recover the costs, so they never bothered. Instead, just like with a BRZ/FRS they found someone to shoulder the risk/rewards with.
I think the new Supra is fine for Toyota. So what if it is shared with BMW. I am reading it is a big sales hit for the brand.
The new Supra is really good car. I’ve tracked it on a road course in Texas and it really handles well. Half the people complaining about how horrible the car is haven’t even driven the car. Yes it’s a BMW. No i’m not in love with the idea that Toyota used BMW as a partner to build the Supra. But I’m glad to see a new sports car make it to market. I’d take this over the Porsche 4 cylinder 718 any day of the week. As far as people comparing this to the C8 not a fair comparison, GM benchmarked the Ferrari 458, Toyota/BMW bench marked the 718 Cayman and Mustang I believe they achieved their goal. It will sell in small quantities for its life’s span. Toyota already hit their sales goal last year. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 500hp M4 straight six in this thing in 3 years.
I've heard similar reviews for friends that have driven it in regard to handling. Most that are complaining are internet trolls that go along with what others are saying that don't own a sports car much less a MKV. The C8 will get compared because of the baseline price point but I know a few that ordered C8's and they are in the mid 80K range with the options they chose. No one actually seems to be buying a base model. I'm curious what direction Toyota will go with the MKV. Before Covid got serious here the MKV outsold both the Lexus RC and FRS sales in March of this year. And has also outsold the 718 Cayman and Boxster year to date.
why don't you have BMWs then? it's also showing that toyota really couldn't care less about disappointing its most avid fans and is happy to stick a giant middle finger up to them by desecrating the famous Supra name, a car known as a JDM legend and one of the finest vehicles ever to come out of japan, the ghidorah to nissan's godzilla
nissan came out with their own in-house GT-R not even a decade after being on the verge of bankruptcy and it was an unbelievably phenomenally performing car that could put cars costing 2-3x as much to shame, meanwhile here we are with the world's most profitable car company doing as well as ever and they can't even be bothered to make a car only intended to be as fast as a porsche cayman
also it's not just shared with BMW it is a BMW so you get the dreaded BMW bonggggg bonggggg bonggggg when you open the door and start it up... unbelievable laziness on toyota's part, how would you feel if your 4runner was a dodge durango underneath that used chrysler parts?
04-04-20, 07:38 AM
