2019 Toyota Supra
#271
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i believe most 911s and i think maybe even bmw m3's did not offer a mechanical lsd. i believe at least 911's do now. were they not sports cars?
but i get your point because an lsd is awesome. new electronic ones can be at least as effective from what i've read so to me it doesn't have to be mechanical, but maybe i misunderstood the pros/cons.
but i get your point because an lsd is awesome. new electronic ones can be at least as effective from what i've read so to me it doesn't have to be mechanical, but maybe i misunderstood the pros/cons.
Electronic LSDs (e-LSD) are still mechanical but brake-based e-LSDs wear out the brake pads much quicker.
#272
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The teams reportedly went separate ways after agreeing on basics
![](https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clublexus.com-vbulletin/800x450/07_2019_toyota_supra_prototype_fd_cbff62536267d533f971318966fe746633cfc67b.jpg)
It seems pretty safe to say that the upcoming new Toyota Supra will not simply be a rebadged BMW Z4, even if the Supra's hardware is largely sourced from BMW. In this case, calling the cars jointly developed might even be a bit of a stretch. Supra program assistant chief engineer Masayuki Kai has said that the Z4 and Supra development teams severed their ties in 2014 and started doing their own thing as soon as the cars' hard points were agreed upon. This differs greatly from the way Toyota and Subaru developed the 86 and BRZ coupes, for example.
According to an interview with CNET, Kai said that his development team hasn't discussed the cars with anyone from BMW in four years. "We agreed on the packaging," Kai said at a Supra event in Madrid, "like where is the hip-point of the driver, what's the wheelbase, the width, where's the fuel tank, where's the A-pillar, this was around the middle of 2014. After that we completely separated our team. After that, no communication with each other." Not even Christmas cards?
Reportedly, Kai's team has little to no knowledge of the new Z4, apart from the platform. There are a host of shared components developed for both cars, but to the Toyota team, it's not that clear how many of those will actually have been used in the finished Z4. Kai didn't disclose if he has personally driven the BMW sibling. The BMW B58 engine began series production in 2015, so by mid-2014 it could have been ready to be handed over to Toyota engineers in a crate labeled "Use This for Supra, This Side Up."
If it can be believed, the entire detached-development story reads like it's simply a positive thing. Instead of just shaping the BMW-related car with a Toyota design language, yet having everything under the skin act identically, Toyota has been able to take the agreed-upon hardware and work it into the direction it sees as the best fit for a car called a Toyota Supra. Masayuki Kai underlined that suspension tuning, throttle response and shifting action have been given as much a Toyota feel as possible — and as seen during our test drive with a prototype G20 3-series, which will share the BMW straight-six engine used the Supra, steering weight and suspension settings can be software adjusted to such a great extent even on the fly that it can feel like a different car for different drivers.
According to an interview with CNET, Kai said that his development team hasn't discussed the cars with anyone from BMW in four years. "We agreed on the packaging," Kai said at a Supra event in Madrid, "like where is the hip-point of the driver, what's the wheelbase, the width, where's the fuel tank, where's the A-pillar, this was around the middle of 2014. After that we completely separated our team. After that, no communication with each other." Not even Christmas cards?
Reportedly, Kai's team has little to no knowledge of the new Z4, apart from the platform. There are a host of shared components developed for both cars, but to the Toyota team, it's not that clear how many of those will actually have been used in the finished Z4. Kai didn't disclose if he has personally driven the BMW sibling. The BMW B58 engine began series production in 2015, so by mid-2014 it could have been ready to be handed over to Toyota engineers in a crate labeled "Use This for Supra, This Side Up."
If it can be believed, the entire detached-development story reads like it's simply a positive thing. Instead of just shaping the BMW-related car with a Toyota design language, yet having everything under the skin act identically, Toyota has been able to take the agreed-upon hardware and work it into the direction it sees as the best fit for a car called a Toyota Supra. Masayuki Kai underlined that suspension tuning, throttle response and shifting action have been given as much a Toyota feel as possible — and as seen during our test drive with a prototype G20 3-series, which will share the BMW straight-six engine used the Supra, steering weight and suspension settings can be software adjusted to such a great extent even on the fly that it can feel like a different car for different drivers.
#273
Lexus Test Driver
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What Masayuki Kai is saying feels like damage control and want people to think its a Toyota product. Its not a Toyota product.
So what he basically said is another way of saying the Toyota Supra is different after the BMW Z4 platform, engine, transmission, and interior design points. Lol
So what he basically said is another way of saying the Toyota Supra is different after the BMW Z4 platform, engine, transmission, and interior design points. Lol
#274
Pole Position
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Awesome review by a present MKIV owner on the MKV:
https://www.topgear.com.ph/features/feature-articles/supra-the-legend-is-back-a2574-20180925-lfrm
https://www.topgear.com.ph/features/feature-articles/supra-the-legend-is-back-a2574-20180925-lfrm
#275
1UZFE/2JZGTE
iTrader: (11)
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Awesome review by a present MKIV owner on the MKV:
https://www.topgear.com.ph/features/...-20180925-lfrm
https://www.topgear.com.ph/features/...-20180925-lfrm
#276
Lexus Test Driver
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something great about the mk iv supra is that it's actually decently comfortable and smooth riding. i of course haven't driven the new one, but after reading in that review about how it was "extensively" driven on the nurburgring, i just hope they kept the suspension decently soft. handling is good and all, but generally speaking this car will almost always not be on a track.
#277
Lexus Test Driver
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Most of the reviews are saying the Supra is tuned much softer than Z4 M40i with soft brake pedal, less power, slower shifts and more understeer. This is by ppl that drove both.
Very disappointing thus far.......
Very disappointing thus far.......
#278
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Awesome review by a present MKIV owner on the MKV:
https://www.topgear.com.ph/features/...-20180925-lfrm
https://www.topgear.com.ph/features/...-20180925-lfrm
-The chassis is stiff: stiffer than Lexus’ all-carbon tub LFA, despite possessing a traditional steel and alloy chassis
-The center of gravity is also very low, lower than the Toyota 86's, which, when launched in 2012, had a CG even lower than most sports cars such as the Lamborghini Aventador.
-Even with half the power of my own JZA80 Supra, my older car will never see which way the new A90 Supra went should they ever meet on track.
It's safe to say that handling/stability will be the highlight of this next iteration of the lineage, and that's definitely a better news than having a high-powered car that can't handle itself on the track. The stock performance might be underwhelming (per article, 300hp+ and 8-speed auto AT THE TESTING), but nothing like a flash/better turbos + fuel support to push the power up to 500+ easily, although I am worried that they are using the German tech of DI...which is still a problematic piece regarding oil consumption on high-revving activities.
The side shot of the car grew on me....a lot more than I expected. Let's really see how the car's lines look without these fugly camos.
#279
1UZFE/2JZGTE
iTrader: (11)
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Some interesting facts posted by the author:
-The chassis is stiff: stiffer than Lexus’ all-carbon tub LFA, despite possessing a traditional steel and alloy chassis
-The center of gravity is also very low, lower than the Toyota 86's, which, when launched in 2012, had a CG even lower than most sports cars such as the Lamborghini Aventador.
-Even with half the power of my own JZA80 Supra, my older car will never see which way the new A90 Supra went should they ever meet on track.
It's safe to say that handling/stability will be the highlight of this next iteration of the lineage, and that's definitely a better news than having a high-powered car that can't handle itself on the track. The stock performance might be underwhelming (per article, 300hp+ and 8-speed auto AT THE TESTING), but nothing like a flash/better turbos + fuel support to push the power up to 500+ easily, although I am worried that they are using the German tech of DI...which is still a problematic piece regarding oil consumption on high-revving activities.
The side shot of the car grew on me....a lot more than I expected. Let's really see how the car's lines look without these fugly camos.
-The chassis is stiff: stiffer than Lexus’ all-carbon tub LFA, despite possessing a traditional steel and alloy chassis
-The center of gravity is also very low, lower than the Toyota 86's, which, when launched in 2012, had a CG even lower than most sports cars such as the Lamborghini Aventador.
-Even with half the power of my own JZA80 Supra, my older car will never see which way the new A90 Supra went should they ever meet on track.
It's safe to say that handling/stability will be the highlight of this next iteration of the lineage, and that's definitely a better news than having a high-powered car that can't handle itself on the track. The stock performance might be underwhelming (per article, 300hp+ and 8-speed auto AT THE TESTING), but nothing like a flash/better turbos + fuel support to push the power up to 500+ easily, although I am worried that they are using the German tech of DI...which is still a problematic piece regarding oil consumption on high-revving activities.
The side shot of the car grew on me....a lot more than I expected. Let's really see how the car's lines look without these fugly camos.
#280
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Agreed, his review made me look differently at the car. The masses want a big horsepower car just because of what's out there in the market but I think this car isn't about big power more on handling like you and the article mentioned. I'm sure the aftermarket will get the power up to 500HP in no time but what impact does that have on handling then again some may only be interested in straight line highway pulls. I'm hoping for a manual option at some point as I believe it will make a nice road race setup or fun to drive around.
That 275/35/19 rear is a surprise, though, since the tires don't look all that big in the photos.
#281
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'Market feedback' will determine if a manual Supra gets built
Enthusiasts, a patient and long-suffering group, have not given up hope of getting the new Toyota Supra with a manual transmission. Toyota, taking advantage of enthusiast forbearance, has dangled the possibility of a manual transmission, but in the most nebulous terms. This counters earlier reports that there would be no manual. During the Supra's international launch in Madrid, both Road & Track and Australian outlet Car Advice asked assistant chief engineer Masayuki Kai about a stickshift. Kai told RT "It purely depends on the reaction of the market," and CA that Toyota will decide on a hand-shaker "depending on feedback from the market."
Key to this is that Kai said engineers have already developed a standard transmission, and "there is hardware ready." That hardware will clearly fit right-hand-drive Supras, Kai declaring that such a model "needs to be sold in Japan." After that, the situation gets fuzzy. If Toyota spent the money on creating a manual for RHD markets, it seems logical that they'd spend the comparatively much smaller sum to rearrange the necessary components for LHD markets, too.
However, the big spend is in compliance and mass production, which is apparently what gives Toyota pause. As Kai said to RT, "If, for example, U.S. customers are demanding strongly that Supra needs to be a manual-transmission car, then we will plan it."
Based on comments at Supra forums and on a legion of car sites including this one, it's difficult to believe Toyota wonders whether U.S. customers "are demanding strongly" a manual gearbox. On the other hand, Toyota has to think about what happens once it has fulfilled orders for all the old-timey Supra lovers; what will the manual take-rate be for the younger buyer fresh to the Supra fold?
Toyota already has limited- and special-edition Supras in mind, Kai telling RT the development teams must have plans "to introduce something new quite frequently, otherwise a car can lose interest." That could provide a potential route to a manual, with perhaps the carmaker releasing a special edition of "a few hundred cars."
Yet, without setting a bright line on how much feedback or how many deposits on a stickshift would be needed to compel manufacture, a row-your-own Supra remains in the folder labeled "Keep Dreaming." While hardcore owners pretend as best they can with the eight-speed automatic, know that there is a more hands-on solution out there, likely being hooned by a unicorn and a ManBearPig on their way to the Cave of the Winds.
Key to this is that Kai said engineers have already developed a standard transmission, and "there is hardware ready." That hardware will clearly fit right-hand-drive Supras, Kai declaring that such a model "needs to be sold in Japan." After that, the situation gets fuzzy. If Toyota spent the money on creating a manual for RHD markets, it seems logical that they'd spend the comparatively much smaller sum to rearrange the necessary components for LHD markets, too.
However, the big spend is in compliance and mass production, which is apparently what gives Toyota pause. As Kai said to RT, "If, for example, U.S. customers are demanding strongly that Supra needs to be a manual-transmission car, then we will plan it."
Based on comments at Supra forums and on a legion of car sites including this one, it's difficult to believe Toyota wonders whether U.S. customers "are demanding strongly" a manual gearbox. On the other hand, Toyota has to think about what happens once it has fulfilled orders for all the old-timey Supra lovers; what will the manual take-rate be for the younger buyer fresh to the Supra fold?
Toyota already has limited- and special-edition Supras in mind, Kai telling RT the development teams must have plans "to introduce something new quite frequently, otherwise a car can lose interest." That could provide a potential route to a manual, with perhaps the carmaker releasing a special edition of "a few hundred cars."
Yet, without setting a bright line on how much feedback or how many deposits on a stickshift would be needed to compel manufacture, a row-your-own Supra remains in the folder labeled "Keep Dreaming." While hardcore owners pretend as best they can with the eight-speed automatic, know that there is a more hands-on solution out there, likely being hooned by a unicorn and a ManBearPig on their way to the Cave of the Winds.
#282
1UZFE/2JZGTE
iTrader: (11)
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^^^^ Manual will be awesome I know any current MKIV owners who buy one will more than likely go manual and a few new buyers but what about the new to Supra buyers like the article mentions. Will be interesting to see what happens. I was thinking of a FBO GTR for my MKIV Supra garage mate but I'm already leaning towards this MKV more so if manual is a possibility.
#284
1UZFE/2JZGTE
iTrader: (11)
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Considering the 6spd TT Supra came with a Getrag (German) manual transmission that handles 4 figure HP and TQ I'm not ruling out anything German as being bad. It's hard to out do what the MKIV Supra was and no one should expect that. The aftermarket is gearing up for this car and Toyota is releasing specs to various vendors early to get ready that says a lot about it I believe the support will be there.
#285
Pole Position
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Agreed, his review made me look differently at the car. The masses want a big horsepower car just because of what's out there in the market but I think this car isn't about big power more on handling like you and the article mentioned. I'm sure the aftermarket will get the power up to 500HP in no time but what impact does that have on handling then again some may only be interested in straight line highway pulls. I'm hoping for a manual option at some point as I believe it will make a nice road race setup or fun to drive around.