mk416

Yeah, I don't really understand the hatred against the German influence here, albeit that this time around the Germans have contributed much more involvement in the performance; 2JZGTE was developed with a helping hand from the Germans and V160/V161 were German. What I've come to believe is that only the TORSEN/ABS/turbos were developed/sourced within Japan, correct me on this if it's wrong.

plex

iTrader: (11)

Agreed pricing will be key, I could see a base model V6 option at first then another with a few bells and whistles but no idea what they really have in store.

Yea I notice a lot of German Engineering bashing on these forums but it's not surprising. Yamaha helped with the development of the 1jzgte and 2jzgte head and I believe everything else was done in house at Toyota. And yes the V160/161 was all done by the Germans.

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

jadu

iTrader: (42)

that's it, I'm getting one! just take my money

mk416

Yes - almost forgot about the Yamaha involvement. Seems like a regular thing for Yamaha to be involved with the head development (3SGTE, 2JZ/1JZGTE, and 2URGSE.

ST430

This is the strange part: the new Z4 will be 380hp as confirmed by BMW, but "only" ~300hp by Toyota? Thats a lot of horsepower artificially held back if indeed the powertrains are identical. I'm hoping stock rating is at least on par with the Z4.......and some quick flash, downpipe, exhaust will unlock up to 500hp easily.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

ST430, the author/source for that article in this case has it wrong. Due to the co-development arrangement for the drivetrain for both vehicles both the Z4 and Supra should be getting the same basic I-6 turbo engine, so both should be putting out 380 or so horsepower.

Beyond the core development of the base chassis and engine, however, both companies went well into their own directions (Toyota's version of the I6 uses their own ECU and tuning as well as possibly a few other components such as their own Yamaha cylinder head and BMW has no interest in adapting a manual transmission but Toyota now seems to have decided to with the hardware already R&D'd. They had to be convinced to spend the extra cash to make it compatible with Toyota Safety Sense 2.0... which no one potentially buying a Supra cares about anyway).

The engine will be capable of much more horsepower than it will have in basic trim either as delivered in limited GRMN/TRD editions or as massaged by tuners. The block is CGI (Compacted Graphite Iron), it will have that Yamaha tuned (or developed?) cylinder head and the ECU was developed with aftermarket tuners in mind. It has been speculated that the ECU is possibly based on a Toyota/Lexus computer that the aftermarket is already familiar with and which would thus be that much easier to crack.

Tetsuya Tada knows all too well that the buyers of this car expect it to be VERY tune-friendly. The upper limits of the engine may not quite go to what the 2JZ-GTE block and head are capable of (on E85, C16 or 100+ octane race gas) but it's going to be capable of much more than 380hp. From the info out there so far, 500hp will be a piece of cake for this engine.

Also, Toyota did a ton of engine parts testing and redesigns to any engine parts that did not meet their standards. No one other than BMW and Toyota insiders know the total differences between the Z4 and Supra versions of the same engine but my understanding has been that for the co-development partnership to have worked the major parts of both cars (basic chassis architecture, basic interior bits, large parts of the engine design or most of it) had to apply to both. It's the individual changes and tuning and option touches to all aspects of either car that basically make them go in separate directions far more than the Subaru BRZ and GT86 ever did.

They aren't building insane horsepower and torque into this car in order to keep the price that much more attainable. I'm sure there will be nothing new with engine modifications violating warranty status as with all cars but this thing has been intended from the get-go to be modified for more horsepower by owners and the chassis has been made strong enough to handle way more than the stock 380hp.

About the only thing they got wrong (really upper management) is the notion that potential buyers don't care about a manual transmission option but it seems they finally got the message on that. However a manual version for which markets, in what trim levels and for how many unit allocations all remains to be seen.

Also, there is really no reliable info on what the status of the 255hp 2.0L 4cyl turbo model is or what markets and configurations it will be offered in. But few are interested in that variant anyway.

situman

At around $60k as the rumored MSRP, not sure how attainable that is to most people. And at that price, it should have close to 450hp or more, especially since Toyota isnt a luxury nameplate. BMW can get away with charging that for less HP, but not Toyota. Just like very few people paid $50k for the MKIV Supra, even less will pay the current asking price. The aftermarket will find out pretty quickly how much money they will lose when their customers are far and few after the initial rush.

mk416

Important point missed by many: look at GTR and NSX...sure big hp/torque figures, but the sales numbers (especially NSX) simply aren't impressing anybody in the inner circle of these companies. Toyota is out here to net more black, not putting more red on their ledger to appease to a segment of market.

situman

These nameplates just cannot command the kind of prices they are asking. At $50k to $60k, people would have snapped up the GTR with its supercar killing performance. The NSX at $150k is asking a lot for a car that is completely different from the cult classic and its a Honda. It's just scary how tone deaf these companies are. Few bought the NSX at $80k a few decade ago, fewer still will buy the current one at double the price.

UDel

They are priced high because they have a lot of technology and bespoke components in them, even at their prices it is doubtful they even turn much profit if any at all. I complain about high prices but there is no way Nissan could put all they did in a GTR and price it at 50K-60K, Infinti entry level sedans and coupes dip into that pricing, even higher. The GTR was a great deal when it was priced in the 70's, then they kept raising and raising the price til it was knocking on or over 100K and sales plummeted, people figured if they are spending that much, they went a better looking car.

Thousands of people bought the original NSX, it changed the way super cars were made and was a big deal and very important for Honda/Acura. The new NSX has a bespoke engine, transmission, mid engine platform, suspension, hybrid system, etc. The engine alone costs around $65K to build so it is not going to cost 100K or under unless they make major compromises. For what it offers, its uniqueness, beauty, and what it competes against it is actually a deal, the expensive options are what really drive the price up too high, that is where I think they made the biggest mistake, charging so much for upgraded leather, spoiler, etc and I think that is what turned some buyers off, they thought they could get what they want for $150 or 155K but after options it was closer to 200K.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

MKIV price = MKV price ?!?!?! for that price, might as well get a new supra haha

plex

iTrader: (11)

Not exactly I will go out on a limb and say MKIV values will rise or hold over MKV for a while. A 98 6spd TT Supra with 3K miles sold for $150K recently to someone that already had several MKIV Supras. I guess cross shopping these 2 will be an option for some when the MKV comes out, I would add a MKV to my MKIV in garage but not sell MKIV for MKV.

spwolf

i have to laugh out loud at $50k to $60k for GTR.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ The if the R34 Skyline GT-R's had ever been global vehicles they would easily fit into the $50k-$60k price bracket. The R35 is on another level compared to its predecessors.

The Supra was never going to be what we'd call inexpensive but while occupying the $55k base price territory (for the basic I-6 turbo configuration) it's playing to a market that the GTR isn't any longer. And it's a very poorly kept secret that while a Supra MKV with the I-6 turbo engine may cost $55k and up it's designed to be tuned well beyond stock power levels and has been designed to grip and handle better on the track than the already excellent MKIV did.

When the new Nissan Z is redesigned I would not be surprised it its price didn't grow into this territory as well on the high end.

Honda's new NSX was an odd choice for them. Something VERY interesting on their part recently has been to visually reference the late model previous generation NSX Type R and Acura Integra Type R in a commercial for their redesigned RDX crossover-people-mover. You'd think they would reference their newest NSX in such an ad to emphasize current brand DNA but... nope... even in a commercial squarely aimed at buyers who don't know or even care about Acura/Honda's Type R heritage they want to remind you of such classics above all else. Just... an interesting choice to showcase models that perhaps their non-target audience for the RDX will respond much more favorably to than the current-gen NSX.