2019 Toyota Supra
01-18-19, 06:37 AM
#676
Pole Position
Well one has to choose then. Would you rather have a BMW Supra or a Supra with a V6? Toyota will never do another in house sports car again (excluding Lexus).
01-18-19, 06:41 AM
#677
Pole Position
3.5 Twin Turbo V6 only makes sense in LS and GS sized car . I really have my doubts when it comes to putting in such a monstrosity of an engine in anything smaller. Then there is a character of the engine which is very opposite from the sports car. It's not your GT-R V6 that's for sure, it doesn't act like that at all. It's made for soft cruising with enough punch to keep the boat going.
01-18-19, 06:43 AM
#678
Lexus Fanatic
I agree with some points above. When someone says a Japanese V6 belongs in the Supra, didn't they miss the entire point of bringing it back (it was clearly stated by Toyota Motor)? Like someone who wasn't paying attention in class.
Overall I do like it, wish it had a stick, but if I had to choose, based on the price, I'd rather go with the Z4.
Lift the hood of a RAM turbo diesel, and what do you see? There's a reason why there's no V engine there....my .02
Overall I do like it, wish it had a stick, but if I had to choose, based on the price, I'd rather go with the Z4.
Lift the hood of a RAM turbo diesel, and what do you see? There's a reason why there's no V engine there....my .02
01-18-19, 06:44 AM
#679
Pole Position
I like both too. But I dislike the German stereotype. So I'll tell my story again. I am the original owner of a E92 335i. It was on the CR avoid, and unreliable lists. As the vehicle neared warranty expiration, I listened to people who said, "Nobody drives a BMW out of warranty." "You'd be crazy to keep a N54 without an extended warranty." Well the car just turned 12, and the only repair more than $200 was the ABS/DSC pump. Yes, that's a $4,200 repair at the dealer. But it can be DIY for as little as $300. I had to buy software and some line wrenches and a motive, so my cost was just under $500.
So I shopped online and by phone for an extended warranty to get it heavily discounted and no sales tax, bought it to extend to 7/100, and nothing ever happened.
Moral of my story? You always hear about the cars breaking and the expensive repairs, you rarely hear from the people whose cars didn't break. But you always seem to hear the latter from the Japanese car owners. So it paints an unrealistic picture.
So I shopped online and by phone for an extended warranty to get it heavily discounted and no sales tax, bought it to extend to 7/100, and nothing ever happened.
Moral of my story? You always hear about the cars breaking and the expensive repairs, you rarely hear from the people whose cars didn't break. But you always seem to hear the latter from the Japanese car owners. So it paints an unrealistic picture.
01-18-19, 07:18 AM
#680
Lexus Champion
Good points. I've found that when talking about certain cars they aren't as bad as some people make them out to be, or as good as others do. The reality is somewhere in the middle.
01-18-19, 07:57 AM
#681
I agree with some points above. When someone says a Japanese V6 belongs in the Supra, didn't they miss the entire point of bringing it back (it was clearly stated by Toyota Motor)? Like someone who wasn't paying attention in class.
Overall I do like it, wish it had a stick, but if I had to choose, based on the price, I'd rather go with the Z4.
Lift the hood of a RAM turbo diesel, and what do you see? There's a reason why there's no V engine there....my .02
Overall I do like it, wish it had a stick, but if I had to choose, based on the price, I'd rather go with the Z4.
Lift the hood of a RAM turbo diesel, and what do you see? There's a reason why there's no V engine there....my .02
I think people comparing them on price makes little sense, these two cars are completely different market wise - people do not buy Z4 because it is a sports car. But for those few that are looking at the price, I cant see how would you pay $15k more for Z4, it makes no sense at all.
Or pick base Z4 with 4cly vs 6cly in Supra for same price? Only if you are looking at it from hairdresser car perspective.
01-18-19, 08:01 AM
#682
Lexus Test Driver
Perfect world scenario would have been taking an already great BMW B58 Inline 6 engine and building it up - iron block, Yamaha heads were the rumors.
Option 2 - put in the Lexus V6 turbo that makes over 400hp
Worse option - put in detuned BMW Inline 6 with zero upgrades mated to 8speed auto.
So ofcourse I rather Supra have Inline 6 and have no issue using BMW one but make it special enough to be in your halo car! It doesn’t cost too much to improve the internals etc....
Option 2 - put in the Lexus V6 turbo that makes over 400hp
Worse option - put in detuned BMW Inline 6 with zero upgrades mated to 8speed auto.
So ofcourse I rather Supra have Inline 6 and have no issue using BMW one but make it special enough to be in your halo car! It doesn’t cost too much to improve the internals etc....
01-18-19, 08:06 AM
#683
Lexus Test Driver
you would pay $15k more for z4 with same engine?
I think people comparing them on price makes little sense, these two cars are completely different market wise - people do not buy Z4 because it is a sports car. But for those few that are looking at the price, I cant see how would you pay $15k more for Z4, it makes no sense at all.
Or pick base Z4 with 4cly vs 6cly in Supra for same price? Only if you are looking at it from hairdresser car perspective.
I think people comparing them on price makes little sense, these two cars are completely different market wise - people do not buy Z4 because it is a sports car. But for those few that are looking at the price, I cant see how would you pay $15k more for Z4, it makes no sense at all.
Or pick base Z4 with 4cly vs 6cly in Supra for same price? Only if you are looking at it from hairdresser car perspective.
Z4 is also a Convertible, has better interior, better tech, larger Idrive screen, and come with better warranty/ maint plan. Based on early review by the MT journalist who tested both cars, he said Z4 was faster and sportier. Supra was “smoother”.
I do agree they will not be cross-shopped against each other.
BMW M2 and M240i are main competition for Supra.
Also Mustang GT, Camaro SS, and Corvette.
Maybe some Cayman buyers will consider it too.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 01-18-19 at 08:10 AM.
01-18-19, 08:18 AM
#684
I agree with some points above. When someone says a Japanese V6 belongs in the Supra, didn't they miss the entire point of bringing it back (it was clearly stated by Toyota Motor)? Like someone who wasn't paying attention in class.
Overall I do like it, wish it had a stick, but if I had to choose, based on the price, I'd rather go with the Z4.
Lift the hood of a RAM turbo diesel, and what do you see? There's a reason why there's no V engine there....my .02
Overall I do like it, wish it had a stick, but if I had to choose, based on the price, I'd rather go with the Z4.
Lift the hood of a RAM turbo diesel, and what do you see? There's a reason why there's no V engine there....my .02
but hey we get this 335 hp inline 6 with the same hp as an ancient 370Z after waiting many years for this thing.
01-18-19, 08:42 AM
#685
^^^ as you may already know, you're comparing an N/A v6 vs an inline6 turbo and BMW has quite a bit more aftermarket tuning support than the recently release TTV6 of the LS5 
more power is easily freed up by bolt ons (e.g. DP, IC, BPU etc..) compared to a naturally aspirated engine
awesome vid!
more power is easily freed up by bolt ons (e.g. DP, IC, BPU etc..) compared to a naturally aspirated engine
01-18-19, 09:13 AM
#686
Lexus Test Driver
Where do people get this stuff? None of that is true. BMW is above average in all the reliability data over the last few years I've seen. There is no evidence that this engine "will develop problems in less than 60k miles".
And anyway, even if they were "average" average is quite good. People have this idea that if a car isn't in the top three rankings its an unreliable POS, and thats just not true. Oftentimes the difference between a brand ranked 9ths and 1st is a slim margin.
It is? How do you come to have such a pulse on the general population? I've read and watched a bunch of things on it, seems positive. The comments on such reviews online seem positive..."Supra purists", are they really going to buy this car anyways?
I would venture to say you can't bring any "vaunted" car back after 20 years and not **** people off.
And anyway, even if they were "average" average is quite good. People have this idea that if a car isn't in the top three rankings its an unreliable POS, and thats just not true. Oftentimes the difference between a brand ranked 9ths and 1st is a slim margin.
It is? How do you come to have such a pulse on the general population? I've read and watched a bunch of things on it, seems positive. The comments on such reviews online seem positive..."Supra purists", are they really going to buy this car anyways?
I would venture to say you can't bring any "vaunted" car back after 20 years and not **** people off.
There is evidence that BMW engines will develop problems after 60K miles. The BMW 3 series has a known gasket issue that forms oil leaks. Its a rather cheap fix but it will break. After many generations of the 3 series, you think they learned to build a better gasket, no?
No idea what you are reading, Steve. Read the comments here. Is not the majority of the people on this thread hating on the Supra? Did Autoblog not post an article trashing the Supra? KKB reviewer hated Supra design. Tons of YouTube comments seem to hate it as well. So general verdict? Yeah. I would say majority of people (general population) hate this thing.
I would argue your last statement. The Nissan GTR R35. It was highly praised and love. Nissan got a lot of love for doing the it right for bringing the first ever GT-R to the United States.
Hell - even Honda got some props for doing the first US-Spec Type R right.
So - if you do it right, people will love it. And guess what, the next 2020 Shelby GT got tons of love as well. Its been years since the last Shelby. You know why it got loved - they did it right.
What the Supra did wrong?
1) 99% BMW.
2) No manual
3) Underpowered engine (while the sister car has more power)
4) BMW interior
5) Most likely expensive to repair and fix due to it being 99% BMW
6) 20 years rebirth car and 12HP difference. LOL.
Why is Toyota stupid for this? They got bait and switched.
Toyota showed off a 4.1 0-60 time showing that they beat the Z4 for only BMW to bait and switch later showing a faster 0-60 time.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 01-18-19 at 09:16 AM.
01-18-19, 09:18 AM
#687
Lexus Fanatic
you would pay $15k more for z4 with same engine?
I think people comparing them on price makes little sense, these two cars are completely different market wise - people do not buy Z4 because it is a sports car. But for those few that are looking at the price, I cant see how would you pay $15k more for Z4, it makes no sense at all.
Or pick base Z4 with 4cly vs 6cly in Supra for same price? Only if you are looking at it from hairdresser car perspective.
I think people comparing them on price makes little sense, these two cars are completely different market wise - people do not buy Z4 because it is a sports car. But for those few that are looking at the price, I cant see how would you pay $15k more for Z4, it makes no sense at all.
Or pick base Z4 with 4cly vs 6cly in Supra for same price? Only if you are looking at it from hairdresser car perspective.
01-18-19, 11:42 AM
#688
Lexus Fanatic
People that defend BMW reliability always gets me. Its crazy. If you think BMW is above average reliability, then go buy one and drive it pass 100K miles. Its well-known BMW reliability is trash. Its even admitted on BIMMERPOST but yet, for some reason, we have LexusClub members defending BMW - funny.
01-18-19, 11:43 AM
#689
People that defend BMW reliability always gets me. Its crazy. If you think BMW is above average reliability, then go buy one and drive it pass 100K miles. Its well-known BMW reliability is trash. Its even admitted on BIMMERPOST but yet, for some reason, we have LexusClub members defending BMW - funny.
There is evidence that BMW engines will develop problems after 60K miles. The BMW 3 series has a known gasket issue that forms oil leaks. Its a rather cheap fix but it will break. After many generations of the 3 series, you think they learned to build a better gasket, no?
There is evidence that BMW engines will develop problems after 60K miles. The BMW 3 series has a known gasket issue that forms oil leaks. Its a rather cheap fix but it will break. After many generations of the 3 series, you think they learned to build a better gasket, no?
01-18-19, 11:50 AM
#690
- Very common thing these days which is why leases are prevalent today"Tech gets outdated too fast" -
- Yes"Life is too short to drive an old car" -
- What about people who enjoy their classics? ex. 1930s-1960s