davyjordi

i sure hope not. reliability, brand recognition/prestige, value, etc. are all things that are associated with the lexus marque. it would be a shame to see the company fail.

Johnhav430

Toyota could be there on that tract now. It seems like they've bet against turbocharging (Toyota), when most other car cos. have embraced it. Not sure if they see something else, or maybe even gasoline powered cars are gone soon? Look at Leica, Canon, Nikon, the former sure didn't see digital photography as the future, everyone surely would applaud superior optics on film well into the 21st century....they needed Kodak's help. Kodak? lol

FatherTo1

Sony got comfortable and became complacent. I recall reading 10 years ago that Samsung wanted to become Sony and set out with a plan. They literally locked their engineers in a dormitory and kept them away from "distractions" (such as family, wife, and kids) for months at a time. Seems awfully drastic but Samsung was focused and look at them now. Many households have Samsung phones, TVs, washers/dryers, Bluray players, stoves, refrigerators, etc.

I'm one of those that has a long memory and still remembers the mediocrity of Hyundai. Never desired to own a Hyundai but the latest surveys, reviews, and new products have definitely piqued my interest. Hope Lexus sees Hyundai in the rearview mirror and hopefully it spurs Toyota/Lexus to try harder and remain innovative and competitive beyond reliability that is clearly regressing.

FatherTo1

I too was anti-iPod (and still never owned one), but I admit my mistake. At the time, I didn't trust the reliability of hard drives in consumer products lime that. So I bought into the Sony Mini-disc player with its proprietary audio format and super slow real-time recording speed. Couldn't run with it because the darn thing still skipped too much. Ugh.

UDel

I think it is pretty clear Lexus has taken a tumble in quality and reliability in the past generation or 2 of cars, one of the standouts seems to be the GS350 which so far has proven about as reliable as GS's in the past, more so then the 3rd Gen that had its issues so the fall in ratings don't surprise me.

Sony still makes good products, they just got caught by being too expensive and not offering more affordable options and the affordable options they offered were normally pretty crap. As far as Sony HD flatscreen tv's I have 1, parents have 2. They are all XBR's. The first one did have a issue but somewhat understandable because it was around 2008 and most had issues back then and did not last too long from all brands. One of the good things about Sony compared to many other brands is they do try to make things right even out of warranty if you are persistent. They will replace or sell you a tv at a heavily reduced cost if out of warranty in many cases, they did with my parents. Then they replaced the original problematic tv with the same model that did not have a issue later after offering a replacement of a new but crappier tv or replacing it with the same model. I have a Samsung that has been reliable, parents bought 2 small Samsungs, one had a issue that required the motherboard to be replaced a few months into ownership. I don't think any brand is particularly reliable but Sony does seem to take care of customers a little better then other brands from my experience. Sony XBR's and high end models are excellent, their low end models are generally pretty crappy. I have had good luck with my Sony products and I have a lot and still trust the brand but I know to avoid the cheap low end Sony stuff because it is not a real Sony and there just to offer something in a cheaper price range. We had good luck with JVC and Panasonic CRT products, RCA and GE not so much. As far as home/kitchen appliances it seems they all are pretty crappy when it comes to lasting. Actually GE has been one of the longer lasting brands even though they often are not as fancy when it comes to stoves, washers, refrigerators, etc. It may be beneficial to get more basic washers, stoves, frigerators without all the fancy LED/touchscreen layouts/features if you want them to last a long time and not be too expensive to repair, that is what several repairmen have said.

For laptops I bought a IBM Thinkpad, paying a lot for it thinking it would last, it did not last 2 years before completely failing and not booting up, IBM was not the least bit helpful and actually insulting, they wanted close to $600 to fix it no matter what the problem and refused to even give me basic motherboard information on my model out of warranty unless I paid them.

Most electronics made today seem to be more disposable and often can't be fixed or it costs as much or more to fix them then what you paid for them. I have found many people who work on electronics don't seem to really know how to actually go in and fix things, they just start replacing expensive things until they find a working solution or tell you to buy a new one. When I hear the push for fully autonomous cars/driving it makes me cringe because auto/electronics companies still can't make fully reliable and long lasting washers, refrigerators, automobiles, engines that don't leak, tv's, laptops, tablets, smart phones, and other electronics and they think they are going to design perfect systems that need to work perfectly 100% of the time for cars with passengers inside them or else a serious collision will likely happen?

tallcaguy

Sorry to hear you're having problems. Am sure the decision to upgrade was a hard one to make. I've driven a couple of older 460's. Nice cars in many ways (especially the appearance!). Def have a different feel in fit and finish.

Johnhav430

I have a ThinkPad T450s, it probably won as many awards in 2015 as the LS430 did in 2001. imho IBM has stellar parts replacement, I got a message my battery was in fair condition, go online, and a replacement was UPS Next Day Air early AM, meaning I had it in my hands about 30 hours after opening the ticket. This one has an external and internal batteries, gen 5 Intel Core i7. The replacement with the 6th gen Core processor has only an internal battery and experienced cost cutting. I don't like using the work laptop for personal, nor using a consumer grade laptop at home because they simply are too flimsy. But as I said, unfortunately, I loaded the BMW software onto the T450s...I wanted to keep all that junk off of it, but no such luck. I am planning to do the bluetooth thing for the Lexus....

Our gas dryer is a 1984 Whirlpool that came with the house. The 1984 washer broke. Yes it is likely inefficient, but they don't build 'em like they used to...

FatherTo1

I was a big fan of Thinkpads but, ever since Lenovo took over back around the T400/T410 days, the construction isn't as good as it used to be. Of course, Thinkpads no longer cost $3000 now either. The wrist pad sections have pretty thin plastic and cracks more easily. The famed keyboards also exhibit more flex. For a business class laptop, it isn't as durable as they used to be. I used to be an engineer at Intel when they handed out Thinkpads on your first day. They have since switched to HP Elitebooks or Probooks. A shame too. I think the T41 or T60 was the last IBM-made quality ThinkPad.

After the debacle of Windows 8 I have since moved on to a MacBook Pro two years ago and it still performs as fast as day one without the constant Windows updates. I'm not a fan of Apple products but their MacBook Pro has proved to be an exceptional laptop and an absolute pleasure to use. Plus, the Macbooks aren't as expensive as they used to be, especially if you get it from the Apple Outlet store online where their refurbished stuff is literally new.

peteharvey

As industrialization and engineering develops, prosperity rises, and labour becomes more expensive.
Thus Leica, Bang and Olufsen, and Grundig etc became very expensive, and the likes of Japanese Sony and Panasonic etc took over.
Now that Japanese labour has become very expensive, so Hyundai, Samsung and LG has basically taken over the flat screen and smart phone market.
As South Korean labour becomes expensive, Chinese Huawei and Xaiomi etc will start to take over.

However, things get complicated for two reasons.

Firstly, although more expensive in labour and hence product, these premium companies still hold the premium in technology.
This is seen in Mercedes, BMW and VW Group.
It is also true of Apple and the iPhone etc.
It is also true of Sony and their "mirrorless" cameras, plus Canikon and their dSLR cameras.

Thus, it is still difficult for Lexus to tap into the top end of Mercedes-Benz, and it will still be difficult for Genesis to tap into the top end of Lexus.
It is difficult for Japanese audio amplifiers and speakers to tap into the top end of European products like British NAD amplifiers, and British Bowers & Wilkins speakers, and German Elac speakers.
Likewise, Samsung has had a very hard time trying to tap into the market of Sony mirrorless cameras and Canikon dSLR cameras.
German Leica etc still has the stranglehold on top end "medium format" digital cameras!


This stranglehold at the top end of the market is further assisted by market protectionism via tariffs and quotas.
For example, the European Economic Community EEC has long imposed tariffs and import quotas on Japanese cars in Europe otherwise the Jap motor industry would have annihilated the European motor industry long ago.
However, equally true is that presently, Japanese cars are NOT receiving the same type of market protectionism to the flood of cheap Korean cars, as the Europeans were protected from cheap Japanese cars of the 1970's.


It is interesting to see how Lexus refuses to manufacture and assemble cars in China to actually prevent the Chinese from stealing their technology; short term pain, but long term gain.
Meanwhile the Europeans are happy to manufacture and assemble German cars in China to tap into a booming Chinese market, but the Chinese are cunning, and they will steal precious European technology, for short term gain, but long term pain.


Thus, life is just moving along for Lexus.
A new TMC president enters, and tries to change TMC's traditional formula by adding style and dynamics, at the cost of conventionalism and refinement; life is a compromize.
Along the way, there are hiccups in styling like the 5LS, and hiccups in quality control.


I didn't know how bad turbos were until I actually owned one.
Turbos aren't for everyone.
I would never buy the current crop of turbos again.

The real problem with turbos is not at wide throttle openings, but at small throttle openings pottering around town.
You see, at small throttle openings, the turbo is NOT on boost, such that the turbo engine feels lethargic!
Furthermore, the four cylinder engines has an ignition power stroke only once per half revolution of the crankshaft.
The more cylinders available, the greater the number of ignition firing strokes per half revolution, and therefore the smoother the engine is at low RPM speeds.
Thus, at low RPM speeds, the four cylinder is no match for the smoothness of a 60 degree V6.
As RPM speeds rise, then the four cylinder with balance shafts smooth out.
The bottom line is that four cylinder turbos at small throttle openings are lethargic, and not so smooth.

Therefore, I don't think turbos are the intermediate answer.
I believe the intermediate stop gap is actually the electric compressor assisted turbine as used in Mercedes forthcoming in-line six, where the turbine can accelerate to 70,000 RPM in just 0.7 seconds.

TMC was early to the game with gasoline-electric hybrids, however since then, the Europeans have stolen the lead from TMC with their large range of large battery capacity and larger electric motor powered PHEV's!
Compared to an European PHEV, cars like the cheap Camry Hybrid or ES300h have hopeless acceleration, and hopeless electric vehicle only range - largely due to their tiddly widdly little batteries, and tiddly widdly little electric motors, but they are cheap - I'll give you that.
TMC is late to the party with small capacity turbos, but in the same way, can TMC hit back by leading the electric motor powered turbine assisted exhaust driven turbo brigade???

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bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

You post some interesting stuff peteharvey but about turbos and fours, for better or worse, they're the mainstream thing now for vehicles, but they're not all bad.

recent rides in mercedes e300 and hyundai santa fe sport both with turbo 4s showed me they can be just fine in many scenarios.

peteharvey

When I first tested the C300 and E300 in late 2014 and late 2015 respectively, I thought they were nice too.
When I test drove 2017 IS200t, it was a lovely engine too!
However, after actually owning 2017 IS200t, I wished I had purchased IS350.

I have never been impressed with the turbo characteristics of 535i 3.0 TT and E400 3.5 V6 TT.
Thus, I am still suspicious about turbos.
Though I must test the new E300. Maybe Benz 2.0T does better than Lexus at small throttle openings?

However, I really welcome the idea of using electric compressor assist like the forthcoming Mercedes in-line sixes.

Just me.
I'm just very picky about throttle response and the shape of the torque curve at small throttle openings around town; I rarely full throttle the car anymore these days - too many tickets, and a danger to the public.
I love the throttle response and torque curve of the GS450h at low speeds around town, but didn't like the trunk volume, extra weight on handling, and the long term value for money.
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bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Motorweek and cars.com just did smaller sports sedan shootout and of 7 models all with turbo 4's, and i'm sorry to report the is200t came in last and was way slower than the others. the audi a4 won, followed by alfa giulia and bmw 3 series.

peteharvey

Yes, the 3IS is long in the tooth now.
The body is not competitive with near 50% aluminium content like the C Class, 3 Series and A4.
If I'm not wrong, the 3IS is the heaviest in its class.

I'll test drive the Mercedes 2.0 turbos again - I need a longer test drive.
However, my previous picky experience with the BMW 2.0 turbo, is that I don't like its small throttle response, nor its small throttle torque curve at all.
Just me, but I'm an atmospheric man.

I'm not saying that atmos is better, but I am trying to say that each has its set of pros and cons. Neither is perfect.
However, I do believe that the forthcoming electric compressor assisted turbos like those from Benz's forthcoming in-line sixes can finally give the best of both worlds...

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mmarshall

Link?

Sulu

The Camry Hybrid and ES 300h are not cheap and do not have hopeless acceleration. They have more than adequate acceleration. Put my ESh in Sport mode and it will go.

As for "hopeless electric vehicle only range - largely due to their tiddly widdly little batteries, and tiddly widdly little electric motors", it is a tradeoff.

A more powerful electric motor will give better acceleration but will also use up battery charge very, very, very quickly, requiring a larger, heavier, higher-capacity battery to hold adequate charge. But to charge that higher-capacity battery, the engine will have to switch on more often to recharge the battery. If the engine is running all the time in order to recharge the battery, why not just drive a normal, non-hybrid car (perhaps with auto start-stop to save fuel when idling or at stoplights)?

OK, put in a higher-capacity battery and make it plug-in rechargeable. But once the battery discharges, you are left with a hybrid car pulling an extra load of the larger, heavier battery.

OK. put in a small, turbocharged engine, but if that small engine is overworked pulling around large, heavy plug-in hybrid vehicle, it does not save on fuel consumption.

This is the route that the Germans are going with their plug-in hybrids. It is nothing but a PR stunt. There are other, simpler ways to build a fast car without making it a hybrid electric vehicle.