SW17LS

It's not a replacement for durability, but it's a measure of how satisfied customers are with their new cars, bottom line is according to this Lexus customers are far less satisfied than they used to be. That's something that's an issue, also.

In any event, just the fact that they've slipped so dramatically will hurt perception of the brand as their competitors (almost all of which are above "below average" Lexus now after years of watching Lexus at the top use that against them.

You can bet Genesis will tout this in EVERY ad.

PeeVee

Well I think that it might be expected when the whole line of cars have new designs. In a few years they will refine the model over the years.
For the electronic side, I can say that I have at least two: Received Texts on my phone are most of the time not forwarded to my infonment system. Second, my reverse camera guiding lines do not work in cold weather. They did not manage to fix that last winter, Lexus engineers will look it up at fall when cold weather gets back... I think those a real problems and not just being unsatisfied by the interface like many auto critic journalists report.

But it is a good question as what is really counted as being a problem? We may never know.

SW17LS

Lexus has had whole turnovers of their model lineup many times before and this has never happened. They've never been below average ever in their history, and we're commonly #1 up until a few years ago.

FastFord

Reliability is the biggest factor for me...not initial quality. I don't think I have owned very many cars that have been perfect from the day I drove it off the lot. That includes various Lexus vehicles. Once any little gremlins have been addressed, I have never had any issues with a Lexus before trading it in.

The overall score is not a very good judge of any vehicle. If Lexus is dragged down by it's voice recognition and other nav issues, sound systems, etc. I could care less. Is there work to be done at Lexus, I believe there is, but it won't stop me from buying another.

SW17LS

It's not infotainment. Infotainment was the same in 2016, 2015, 2014 & 2013...why wasn't IQS trounced in those years?

Johnhav430

What did this chart look like in 2006? Are we to accept that having 72 problems per 100 vehicles, is stellar? Also, jmo, since Porsche is king on this historically, ask that guy Nick on YouTube how things went on his new 911 Carrera S a couple years ago (buyback). hashtag unscientific lol

(then again man has always searched for a single number with which to judge goodness)

mmarshall

Given how complex most of today's vehicles are (especially luxury/premium vehicles), to average less than one problem per vehicle, even when brand-new, is a pretty good accomplishment IMO, any way you look at it.

And that quality today is well-appreciated. I'm old enough to clearly remember the defect-ridden junk and poor excuses for automobiles that we got from GM and Chrysler (and, to a lesser extent, Ford) in the late 70s and 80s.....while their CEOs (people like Lee Iacocca and Henry Ford II) were talking about quality being paramount. I got stuck with several of those cars myself before I finally gave up and switched to Mazdas.....which were clearly better, but still not problem-free.

Freds430

The quality survey has nothing to do with how satisfied a customer is with their purchase. That is a whole other survey. I could love my new purchase but the rattle annoys me so I have to take it in to get fixed. This is a nuisance but should have nothing to do with my satisfaction of the overall product. What they base the survey on is within the first 90 days the study captures problems experienced by owners in defects and malfunctions. Again these are annoyances but give me #1 in dependability based on a three year old vehicle for six straight years anytime.
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SW17LS

"Problems" are areas of dissatisfaction. As in "I don't like the seat" or "I don't like the cup holders" Like I've said repeatedly, it's a number that shows how satisfied buyers are with their new cars, it's not a reliability measurement.

In 2006 the winner had like 96/100. So it's actually improved.

Have you filled out the survey? It's a measure of satisfaction...you're asked areas of concern and about what issues the dealer has addressed. Those areas of concern may or may not be defects that can be corrected.

As for rattles being a nuisance but not impacting your overall impression of the car, I totally disagree. Rattles are a sign of a poor quality product, they destroy my ability to enjoy my vehicle. Part of what I want when I purchase a luxury vehicle is a solid, well crafted machine that feels expensive in everything it does, rattles destroy that.

Reliability is important but it's not everything. If it were all that mattered to us we'd be driving Corollas. I've gotten to the point where I would rather drive a car that impressed me every time I drive it yet needs a repair now and then to a car that frustrates me every time I drive it but never needs a repair. Perceived poor quality in a car really bothers me, especially at this price point and rattles are a huge part of that.

PeeVee

My first three months went without a glitch! Even went on a long road trip of 1000 miles (500 going and back) for summer vacation.

My rattles started after 9 months and got worst 18 months later.

BUT I love to drive my RX 350! Very comfortable for long rides, love the radio sound, climate control, seat comfort. Makes also many heads turn.

Yes there are anoyances, but many can be fixed. Like my sun roof vibration in the room that will be fixed very soon. Hope to keep this one for a very long time!

mmarshall

All else equal, though, it's going to be rather obvious that, even if a customer doesn't particularly like the look or feel of something inside the car, he or she is going to be more satisfied, on the average, if it doesn't break.

For instance, I don't particularly like the hard "feel" of the seat cushions in many of the smaller and/or entry-level Kia products, but those cushions are well-made, with some excellent materials. One can be reasonably confident that, given all but the most extreme abuse, holes and rips won't be worn in the upholstery after a couple of years, or that electric adjustment-motors/switches won't need to be replaced.

SW17LS

It depends. Like I said, I've gotten tired of cars that are behind in material and product quality yet "never break". I'd rather have a car that wows me when I sit in it and drive it and needs something fixed every now and again. Now, I don't want to be on the side of the road or at the dealer every week, but my Jeeps are a good example. I had a lot of issues with that 2011 but I loved it so much I tried again with the 2014. That's what I want out of car ownership, reliability is all well and good but it's really wasted on me since I don't keep cars longer than 3-4 years.

situman

The last gen ES350 was a creak fest, especially from the dash area. Not sure if it is the dash itself or the structure. My GS, even before the accident had ticking sounds. My fiancee's NX has plenty of ticking sounds from the body and shudders. I think while they use more high strength steel and adhesives, its also made thinner. The automotive glues, I believe, strengthens certain parts of the car, however, the stress is then transferred to the parts that arent strengthened causing the body tick sounds and flexes. Plenty of the same complaints from owners of current gen ES350s. I think I will go get a used Land Cruiser or previous gen LX and drive it til it melts.

Johnhav430

Quality is very elusive....it was the "rage" when I was in B school....I sometimes feel that today is just a remake of the same film, with younger actors. Nowadays you hear lean, maybe there is something even newer that I haven't heard yet....talked about it in our 3 day retreat last fall, did exercises, role playing, open bar, haven't done anything since--no follow up, no mention, nothing. I think my employer is typical. The consultants got paid a lot.

Again, I'm just using a general sense....if Porsche dominates this survey for multiple years, yet you talk to Porsche owners and many of the brand new cars go back for repairs that are often unsolvable, what's it measuring? Unless this is a very important marketing tool, at Lexus, I wouldn't sweat it. I just literally took a call asking about something that happened on my business trip--I could say it was awful, terrible, didn't like it. Now my data has to go into the survey, and although unscientific, it would adversely affect this co. in Atlanta, who probably wants high numbers to advertise when there is competition (this is business internet).....

another example, the world's largest eTailer whose founder is soon to be the richest man on the planet--his product is poor quality (unless you pay $99/yr), but extremely reliable, meaning, whatever you want/ask of them, it will be done exactly the same way, every time, and everything has been thought out and mapped....who knows what the survey says about them...I say take them with a grain of salt, Lexus hasn't gone down the drain, nor is it really below average...(chart says so)

situman

I wonder if this new result is justification for their decline in sales. Well more than MB and BMW. Word of mouth advertising is very powerful so if current owners are being annoyed by their car or dislikes driving it, it is very unlikely they will recommend it to their friends or relatives. I would feel bad if I recommend something to friends and relatives and they end up hating that thing. Lexus and Akio is simply too focused on driving involvement and forgot about driving enjoyment. They need to understand that most people are sitting in traffic or on local streets also stuck in traffic or with stop signs and traffic lights (in the U.S. at least). I dont care how fast it can barrel around a turn when I'm stuck in traffic. I want to be able to use my entertainment system easily and quickly without taking my eyes off the road or not have options grayed out cuz I'm moving at 5 mph.