Lexus 5GS spy ****s???
07-20-17, 02:20 PM
#61
I bet it will be called a GS450???
Because GS400 wouldn't be enough considering that it's a 3.5 TT.
While GS500 would be too much, and too close to LS500.
Hence will probably be a GS450?
Lexus tends to give GS a "detuned" version of LS V8, so I wouldn't be surprized if they detuned the 3.5 TT.
However, GS300t 2.0t, and GS500h, and you're spot on; unlikely to be anything else...
Because GS400 wouldn't be enough considering that it's a 3.5 TT.
While GS500 would be too much, and too close to LS500.
Hence will probably be a GS450?
Lexus tends to give GS a "detuned" version of LS V8, so I wouldn't be surprized if they detuned the 3.5 TT.
However, GS300t 2.0t, and GS500h, and you're spot on; unlikely to be anything else...
07-21-17, 08:52 AM
#62
Pole Position
I bet it will be called a GS450???
Because GS400 wouldn't be enough considering that it's a 3.5 TT.
While GS500 would be too much, and too close to LS500.
Hence will probably be a GS450?
Lexus tends to give GS a "detuned" version of LS V8, so I wouldn't be surprized if they detuned the 3.5 TT.
However, GS300t 2.0t, and GS500h, and you're spot on; unlikely to be anything else...
Because GS400 wouldn't be enough considering that it's a 3.5 TT.
While GS500 would be too much, and too close to LS500.
Hence will probably be a GS450?
Lexus tends to give GS a "detuned" version of LS V8, so I wouldn't be surprized if they detuned the 3.5 TT.
However, GS300t 2.0t, and GS500h, and you're spot on; unlikely to be anything else...
07-21-17, 03:26 PM
#64
I do hope Lexus will offer more engine options other than 1 gas and 1 hybrid. This really puts a squeeze on their lower end products. Detuning is fine if the detuned engine still outperforms the competition, but when they offer engines that already outperforms your non-detuned version, I fail to see a business care here. Besides, do you really need 2 turbos to make 350-375hp or whatever the detuned number is when the standard 3.5 already makes 310hp or so?
1) 2.0 Turbo.
2) 3.5 V6 TT.
3) V8 TT?
4) 300h 2.5 Hybrid.
5) 500h 3.5 Hybrid.
I wouldn't be surprized if they detune 5GS, because if 5LS can 0-60 in some 4.5 seconds, then the lighter 5GS will 0-60 in probably 3.8 or 3.9 seconds!
I suspect they will detune 5GS to give 0-60 in only say 4.7 to 4.9 seconds to keep it below the 5LS.
There might be a special 5GS sports version that uses the non-detuned engine for 0-60 in just 3.8 seconds etc.
In the past, Lexus never bothered making a special sports version of GS400/GS430/GS460 that was not detuned.
The twin turbos (TT) aren't really twin turbos; they're actually only a single turbo per bank!
Just me only, but personally, I hate the turbo boom torque curve characteristics of the 535i and E400's.
Maybe the Lexus design uses a bigger capacity 3.5, and this may help to give a flatter torque curve, but then the high reciprocating mass of a bigger engine doesn't rev as sweetly at high rpm's?
Meanwhile 5GS uses 3.5 twin turbo with new 10 speed auto, rear drive, and more expensive double wishbone suspension to keep wheels perpendicular to the road to maximize gripe, and a much higher aluminium content including aluminium suspension arms, and aluminium bonnet etc...
07-21-17, 04:05 PM
#65
The distinction should be more clear than ever now, with 7ES like Camry using the old GS's 3.5 V6 direct injection engine with old 8 speed auto, front drive, and cheap single lower link MacPherson strut front suspension, with minimal if any use of aluminium in the chassis.
Meanwhile 5GS uses 3.5 twin turbo with new 10 speed auto, rear drive, and more expensive double wishbone suspension to keep wheels perpendicular to the road to maximize gripe, and a much higher aluminium content including aluminium suspension arms, and aluminium bonnet etc...
Meanwhile 5GS uses 3.5 twin turbo with new 10 speed auto, rear drive, and more expensive double wishbone suspension to keep wheels perpendicular to the road to maximize gripe, and a much higher aluminium content including aluminium suspension arms, and aluminium bonnet etc...
07-21-17, 04:44 PM
#66
Lexus Champion
Why would the 5GS need to be slower than the new LS? That makes no sense. Many past and current GS versions have been quicker to 60 than the LS.
07-21-17, 05:56 PM
#67
I do hope Lexus will offer more engine options other than 1 gas and 1 hybrid. This really puts a squeeze on their lower end products. Detuning is fine if the detuned engine still outperforms the competition, but when they offer engines that already outperforms your non-detuned version, I fail to see a business care here. Besides, do you really need 2 turbos to make 350-375hp or whatever the detuned number is when the standard 3.5 already makes 310hp or so?
This is a travesty and must be fixed. Recently we learned that the awful throttle lag was done deliberately by Lexus via the ECU. Why build an in-house turbo and then neuter it, just so it doesn't come too close to the IS350 performance. Sad!!!
07-21-17, 06:51 PM
#68
Wishful thinking there..all we demand is that Lexus cut the BS and begin to offer engines that matches the competition. Lexus already screwed us on the 2.0 turbo in the IS; it is by-far the worst performing 2.0 among it's competitors.
This is a travesty and must be fixed. Recently we learned that the awful throttle lag was done deliberately by Lexus via the ECU. Why build an in-house turbo and then neuter it, just so it doesn't come too close to the IS350 performance. Sad!!!
This is a travesty and must be fixed. Recently we learned that the awful throttle lag was done deliberately by Lexus via the ECU. Why build an in-house turbo and then neuter it, just so it doesn't come too close to the IS350 performance. Sad!!!
07-21-17, 09:48 PM
#70
5GS should have at least 5 engine options judging by the next generation Toyota Crown in the Japanese Domestic Market.
1) 2.0 Turbo.
2) 3.5 V6 TT.
3) V8 TT?
4) 300h 2.5 Hybrid.
5) 500h 3.5 Hybrid.
I wouldn't be surprized if they detune 5GS, because if 5LS can 0-60 in some 4.5 seconds, then the lighter 5GS will 0-60 in probably 3.8 or 3.9 seconds!
I suspect they will detune 5GS to give 0-60 in only say 4.7 to 4.9 seconds to keep it below the 5LS.
There might be a special 5GS sports version that uses the non-detuned engine for 0-60 in just 3.8 seconds etc.
In the past, Lexus never bothered making a special sports version of GS400/GS430/GS460 that was not detuned.
The twin turbos (TT) aren't really twin turbos; they're actually only a single turbo per bank!
Just me only, but personally, I hate the turbo boom torque curve characteristics of the 535i and E400's.
Maybe the Lexus design uses a bigger capacity 3.5, and this may help to give a flatter torque curve, but then the high reciprocating mass of a bigger engine doesn't rev as sweetly at high rpm's?
The distinction should be more clear than ever now, with 7ESlike Camry using the old GS's 3.5 V6 direct injection engine with old 8 speed auto, front drive, and cheap single lower link MacPherson strut front suspension, with minimal if any use of aluminium in the chassis.
Meanwhile 5GS uses 3.5 twin turbo with new 10 speed auto, rear drive, and more expensive double wishbone suspension to keep wheels perpendicular to the road to maximize gripe, and a much higher aluminium content including aluminium suspension arms, and aluminium bonnet etc...
1) 2.0 Turbo.
2) 3.5 V6 TT.
3) V8 TT?
4) 300h 2.5 Hybrid.
5) 500h 3.5 Hybrid.
I wouldn't be surprized if they detune 5GS, because if 5LS can 0-60 in some 4.5 seconds, then the lighter 5GS will 0-60 in probably 3.8 or 3.9 seconds!
I suspect they will detune 5GS to give 0-60 in only say 4.7 to 4.9 seconds to keep it below the 5LS.
There might be a special 5GS sports version that uses the non-detuned engine for 0-60 in just 3.8 seconds etc.
In the past, Lexus never bothered making a special sports version of GS400/GS430/GS460 that was not detuned.
The twin turbos (TT) aren't really twin turbos; they're actually only a single turbo per bank!
Just me only, but personally, I hate the turbo boom torque curve characteristics of the 535i and E400's.
Maybe the Lexus design uses a bigger capacity 3.5, and this may help to give a flatter torque curve, but then the high reciprocating mass of a bigger engine doesn't rev as sweetly at high rpm's?
The distinction should be more clear than ever now, with 7ESlike Camry using the old GS's 3.5 V6 direct injection engine with old 8 speed auto, front drive, and cheap single lower link MacPherson strut front suspension, with minimal if any use of aluminium in the chassis.
Meanwhile 5GS uses 3.5 twin turbo with new 10 speed auto, rear drive, and more expensive double wishbone suspension to keep wheels perpendicular to the road to maximize gripe, and a much higher aluminium content including aluminium suspension arms, and aluminium bonnet etc...
I only said that I suspect, and that I wouldn't be surprized if Lexus detuned the 3.5 TT in the 5GS.
3IS's platform is closely related to 4GS, hence similar weight, and with virtually identical engines, the 3IS is actually quicker.
Historically, GS & LS platforms are more radically different, hence bigger weight differences between GS400/LS400, GS430/LS430 & GS460/LS460, hence in this situation, have seen deliberate detuning of GS.
Back in 1999-06, the 1IS300 also deliberately used a detuned version of 2GS300's 3.0 in-line six.
Will be interesting to see if forthcoming Crown uses a detuned version of 5LS's 3.5 TT.
Back in 2000 when Lexus released an IS300 with a detuned engine with less horsepower than the GS300 - I hated that.
I also didn't like GS460 having lacklustre power compared to LS460 either...
_
Last edited by peteharvey; 07-22-17 at 10:43 AM.
07-22-17, 10:38 AM
#71
Wishful thinking there..all we demand is that Lexus cut the BS and begin to offer engines that matches the competition. Lexus already screwed us on the 2.0 turbo in the IS; it is by-far the worst performing 2.0 among it's competitors.
This is a travesty and must be fixed. Recently we learned that the awful throttle lag was done deliberately by Lexus via the ECU. Why build an in-house turbo and then neuter it, just so it doesn't come too close to the IS350 performance. Sad!!!
This is a travesty and must be fixed. Recently we learned that the awful throttle lag was done deliberately by Lexus via the ECU. Why build an in-house turbo and then neuter it, just so it doesn't come too close to the IS350 performance. Sad!!!
The other day, I full throttled her.
Pretty good.
Instant response, powerful, and very smooth and quiet at the top of the rev range.
The only thing I find bad about the 2.0 turbo is the throttle response, torque curve, and NVH at "small" throttle openings - when the turbo is not on spool.
The worst performing amongst its competitors?
Most of the cars in this class have a 7 year model cycle.
If we start with the 2014 C Class, then the A4 is released the year after in 2015, followed by the next generation 3 Series in 2018, and finally the next generation 4IS in 2020.
In 2014, the C Class shed 220 pounds.
In 2015, the A4 shed 260 pounds.
Meanwhile the current generation 2011-18 F30 3 Series is already a lightweight because its platform is specialized for the 3 Series and is not shared/related to the 5 Series, because the 5 Series has its own 7 Series derived platform.
Which of course leaves the current generation 3IS as the heaviest chassis in its class, with weight affecting linear performance, braking and handling; we will have to wait another 3 years before new lightweight technology comes.
Thus, it's not the 2.0 turbo, but the old heavyweight chassis/body.
_
Last edited by peteharvey; 07-22-17 at 10:45 AM.
07-22-17, 01:14 PM
#72
My wife has had her 200t for over half a year now.
The other day, I full throttled her.
Pretty good.
Instant response, powerful, and very smooth and quiet at the top of the rev range.
The only thing I find bad about the 2.0 turbo is the throttle response, torque curve, and NVH at "small" throttle openings - when the turbo is not on spool.
The worst performing amongst its competitors?
Most of the cars in this class have a 7 year model cycle.
If we start with the 2014 C Class, then the A4 is released the year after in 2015, followed by the next generation 3 Series in 2018, and finally the next generation 4IS in 2020.
In 2014, the C Class shed 220 pounds.
In 2015, the A4 shed 260 pounds.
Meanwhile the current generation 2011-18 F30 3 Series is already a lightweight because its platform is specialized for the 3 Series and is not shared/related to the 5 Series, because the 5 Series has its own 7 Series derived platform.
Which of course leaves the current generation 3IS as the heaviest chassis in its class, with weight affecting linear performance, braking and handling; we will have to wait another 3 years before new lightweight technology comes.
Thus, it's not the 2.0 turbo, but the old heavyweight chassis/body.
_
The other day, I full throttled her.
Pretty good.
Instant response, powerful, and very smooth and quiet at the top of the rev range.
The only thing I find bad about the 2.0 turbo is the throttle response, torque curve, and NVH at "small" throttle openings - when the turbo is not on spool.
The worst performing amongst its competitors?
Most of the cars in this class have a 7 year model cycle.
If we start with the 2014 C Class, then the A4 is released the year after in 2015, followed by the next generation 3 Series in 2018, and finally the next generation 4IS in 2020.
In 2014, the C Class shed 220 pounds.
In 2015, the A4 shed 260 pounds.
Meanwhile the current generation 2011-18 F30 3 Series is already a lightweight because its platform is specialized for the 3 Series and is not shared/related to the 5 Series, because the 5 Series has its own 7 Series derived platform.
Which of course leaves the current generation 3IS as the heaviest chassis in its class, with weight affecting linear performance, braking and handling; we will have to wait another 3 years before new lightweight technology comes.
Thus, it's not the 2.0 turbo, but the old heavyweight chassis/body.
_
07-22-17, 07:39 PM
#73
Lexus Champion
My wife has had her 200t for over half a year now.
The other day, I full throttled her.
Pretty good.
Instant response, powerful, and very smooth and quiet at the top of the rev range.
The only thing I find bad about the 2.0 turbo is the throttle response, torque curve, and NVH at "small" throttle openings - when the turbo is not on spool.
The worst performing amongst its competitors?
Most of the cars in this class have a 7 year model cycle.
If we start with the 2014 C Class, then the A4 is released the year after in 2015, followed by the next generation 3 Series in 2018, and finally the next generation 4IS in 2020.
In 2014, the C Class shed 220 pounds.
In 2015, the A4 shed 260 pounds.
Meanwhile the current generation 2011-18 F30 3 Series is already a lightweight because its platform is specialized for the 3 Series and is not shared/related to the 5 Series, because the 5 Series has its own 7 Series derived platform.
Which of course leaves the current generation 3IS as the heaviest chassis in its class, with weight affecting linear performance, braking and handling; we will have to wait another 3 years before new lightweight technology comes.
Thus, it's not the 2.0 turbo, but the old heavyweight chassis/body.
_
The other day, I full throttled her.
Pretty good.
Instant response, powerful, and very smooth and quiet at the top of the rev range.
The only thing I find bad about the 2.0 turbo is the throttle response, torque curve, and NVH at "small" throttle openings - when the turbo is not on spool.
The worst performing amongst its competitors?
Most of the cars in this class have a 7 year model cycle.
If we start with the 2014 C Class, then the A4 is released the year after in 2015, followed by the next generation 3 Series in 2018, and finally the next generation 4IS in 2020.
In 2014, the C Class shed 220 pounds.
In 2015, the A4 shed 260 pounds.
Meanwhile the current generation 2011-18 F30 3 Series is already a lightweight because its platform is specialized for the 3 Series and is not shared/related to the 5 Series, because the 5 Series has its own 7 Series derived platform.
Which of course leaves the current generation 3IS as the heaviest chassis in its class, with weight affecting linear performance, braking and handling; we will have to wait another 3 years before new lightweight technology comes.
Thus, it's not the 2.0 turbo, but the old heavyweight chassis/body.
_
07-22-17, 09:17 PM
#74
I can live with that. Platform migration will really spruce up the Lexus line. But in regards to Atkinson and Otto cycles, it's an impressive feat. I'd like to see the dual cycle technology on more vehicles. Migrate this engine to GA-L platform on the 4IS, and at some point the 2.0T will be making north of 270hp from its current 241hp state. Should be spunky. In fact the 5GS might utilize it first on a GS300. It'll be the volume model, while that GS400/450/500 sporting the TTV6 in F-Sport form will be the lustworty supermodel. People are going to complain but the 5GS will firmly push some F-Sport and Luxury trims past $60k. A typical 2017 GS350 F-Sport RWD is being built at a $59K level. MY2019 is shaping to be an exciting model!
07-24-17, 06:42 AM
#75
Pole Position
Putting it in sport mode eliminates the dual cycle, as far as the feel of lag goes. Maybe it also bypasses the atkinson cycle.