MattyG

I looked up Avalon, Impala and Lacrosse sales. The Impala sells more than Lacrosse. ES outsells Lacrosse by a big margin. This is a question of which brand/vehicle has stayed durable as a sedan. ES has been the same car since the 90's. It is a Toyota platform that used, Camry and Avalon underpinnings to provide its customers with the car they know that they'll be getting.

Lacrosse and its siblings are all over the map since that time, so now they've got a Euro platform but have they come to the party too late?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i think we can be done with all the impala, lacrosse, and other brand sedans... this thread is about the new avalon, thanks.

Toys4RJill

I don't think the new Avalon will have any trouble increasing its sales when the 2019 model debuts. The segment sells about 500K per year and if anyone where to find a way to do it, I think Toyota will be the one.

I was just reading some of the reviews about the outgoing model, it gets some high praise:

TLFcar

"A quiet and peaceful cabin is an Avalon hallmark. Serenity abounds by way of strategically placed sound-insulating materials. That includes acoustic-type windshield glass and side glass and foam injected into the A, B and C-pillars, as well as the rocker panels"

"Premium amenities and design touches define the Avalon’s interior, giving it a high quality feel. "

I think we will see Toyota build on this for the new model.

LexBob2

Here is an interesting site if you are looking for a quick overview. U.S. News compiles info from various sources for their reviews, rankings etc. Notice that here the Avalon is in the #1 and #2 spots. Also some of the models being discussed are under the same Large Car segment (Avalon, Maxima, Lacrosse, Impala, Azera (gone) etc.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/large-cars

Toys4RJill

Thanks, that is great site to do some research. You can't go wrong with an Avalon, too big for my needs. I see the number 1 pro is "High-class cabin with premium materials" I fully expect the next gen to build on this and I expect it to get more expensive.

LexBob2

I noticed that for some reason the ES is ranked with Luxury Mid Size Sedans where it is ranked #9 and 10. The segment as they see it includes A6, E Class, 5 Series, Genesis G80, GS etc., some tough competition.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/...e-midsize-cars

Toys4RJill

I think its fair to compare the ES to the A6, E class and others. I am not saying that it directly compares but to the average lay person who might walk into a Lexus dealer, they won't see things like we do or enthusiasts do. The GS is the true competitor to the German sedans, but the sale numbers of the ES tell me that some people must be buying the ES in lieu of going towards the German side. You agree? The Avalon is absolutely not a competitor of the German brand cars.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

For some reason? What should it be compared to then?

lexus has always had a different approach with 2 midsize sedans, but it's obviously worked overall, although in recent times at the expense of the gs which the market does not appear to think is very competitive for its price.

LexBob2

Agreed that the GS seems more appropriate for this segment as the source sees it. The ES is an entry level car and most of the others from Audi, MB, BMW etc. are not. I guess the ES needs to be included somewhere though. Maybe A4, C Class, 3 Series etc. are too small for a comparison with ES. It's not a big deal to me, was just curious..

mmarshall

Most people who are buying either the ES or Avalon are probably not cross-shopping the Germans. Most probably couldn't care less about Audi's Quattro system (although it would be nice if the ES offered an AWD system of its own). Most probably don't care about BMW's driving dynamics (some of which are clearly in the past now). And most probably don't care about the ability of Mercedes products to protect the occupants in high-speed crashes.....most ES drivers probably don't drive that fast to start with.

Toys4RJill

I absolutely believe there is segment of ES buyers who cross shop with the Germans. Not so for the Avalon though. Acura as well. And Infiniti.

mmarshall

If that were the case, the ES probably would not sell in the numbers it does. It has a huge core of fans and buyer-base (by sedan standards)...though SUV sales have eaten into it somewhat recently. If ES buyers are going anywhere, it is to the Highlander and RX.

MattyG

From the limited renderings speculating what it might look like, it could be a handsome sedan. But people will get their chance to look at it at the Detroit Auto Show, so maybe that's a signal from Toyota about which market they're trying to get back.

Avalon became a wallflower because it replaced the Cressida, which itself was a forgotten gem that wasn't as practical as its fwd replacement.

Even more stealthy with testing in Ann Arbor, MI.

mjeds

noticed this at the L.A. Auto Show, also noticed that the outside pipe on both sides is fake, it is not plumbed to the muffler, just there for looks.

Toys4RJill

To be honest. I really don't know as I don't have the Toyota data. However, someone walking in to a Lexus store for the first time would likely be visiting MB, Audi and BMW. Very unlikely for Avalon buyers.