2019 Toyota Avalon
01-17-18, 06:15 PM
#301
It's going to be interesting to see if this so-called "polarizing" styling is going to have an effect. Just because you style something and it has some pickup due to trends and fashions doesn't mean it will last. The 1st through 3rd generation Avalons were Japanese Buicks and they sold quite well for people who valued reliability, cushy ride and innocuous style. You could even get a bench seat and a column shift on some of the earlier models.
The 4th generation (2012 - 2018) is a nicely styled car and it packs all the tech you could want for those years. Toyota did a great job on that car's looks, even if it wasn't over the top.
Here's the conundrum - one of the most inoffensively styled cars from Germany regularly outsells the Avalon, and it's called the Passat. Year in, year out, the Passat outscores the Avalon in sales. Only when Toyota redid Avalon with the 4th generation, did sales really pick up for two years and then declined again, and that car does not have polarizing looks at all.
VW sold 96K Passats in 2014, even 60+K in 2017, while Avalon did 67K in 2014 and declined to 32K in 2017. How does a bland looking Passat outsell a restyled Avalon through all these years? Where is this particular styling experiment going to end?
Sometimes bland sells for these buyers, so gambling with edgy styling is a big risk.
The 4th generation (2012 - 2018) is a nicely styled car and it packs all the tech you could want for those years. Toyota did a great job on that car's looks, even if it wasn't over the top.
Here's the conundrum - one of the most inoffensively styled cars from Germany regularly outsells the Avalon, and it's called the Passat. Year in, year out, the Passat outscores the Avalon in sales. Only when Toyota redid Avalon with the 4th generation, did sales really pick up for two years and then declined again, and that car does not have polarizing looks at all.
VW sold 96K Passats in 2014, even 60+K in 2017, while Avalon did 67K in 2014 and declined to 32K in 2017. How does a bland looking Passat outsell a restyled Avalon through all these years? Where is this particular styling experiment going to end?
Sometimes bland sells for these buyers, so gambling with edgy styling is a big risk.
Avalon starts $10k more expensive than Passat.
01-17-18, 06:22 PM
#302
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ngs/101502702/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...aker/97234320/
In 2016, apparently TMC lost the world's top selling car position to VW.
Worse, TMC's net profits fell by 20.8%.
2017 is forecasted to fall further.
Hence no more boring cars to the rescue...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...aker/97234320/
In 2016, apparently TMC lost the world's top selling car position to VW.
Worse, TMC's net profits fell by 20.8%.
2017 is forecasted to fall further.
Hence no more boring cars to the rescue...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1D70JC
Toyota said on Tuesday it now expects full-year operating profit to come in at 2.0 trillion yen ($17.54 billion), up from a previous forecast of 1.85 trillion yen, based on a revised assumption that the yen will trade around 111 yen JPY= to the U.S. dollar, from 110 yen.
The updated profit forecast number is more or less similar to last year’s operating profit of 1.99 trillion yen and in line with forecasts of a profit of 2.04 trillion from analysts polled by Thomson Reuters I/B/E/S.
The updated profit forecast number is more or less similar to last year’s operating profit of 1.99 trillion yen and in line with forecasts of a profit of 2.04 trillion from analysts polled by Thomson Reuters I/B/E/S.
https://dailykanban.com/2017/10/worl...es-2016-title/
Surprisingly to many (but not to me) OICA decided that Toyota was World’s Largest Automaker 2016, and not Volkswagen.
01-17-18, 06:30 PM
#303
Lexus Fanatic
Them selling 100k cars more or less is not that important... Renault/Nissan/Mitsu will likely be one for 2017... and Toyota actually won 2016 despite VW wanting so bad to fake the numbers like they did in 2010.
https://dailykanban.com/2017/10/worl...es-2016-title/
https://dailykanban.com/2017/10/worl...es-2016-title/
01-17-18, 06:31 PM
#304
Lexus Champion
01-17-18, 06:34 PM
#305
You do realize that Toyota is by far the most profitable manufacturer in the world, even when Yen does not work for them?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1D70JC
Them selling 100k cars more or less is not that important... Renault/Nissan/Mitsu will likely be one for 2017... and Toyota actually won 2016 despite VW wanting so bad to fake the numbers like they did in 2010.
https://dailykanban.com/2017/10/worl...es-2016-title/
But sure, no boring cars anymore... New generation is liking them crazy.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN1D70JC
Them selling 100k cars more or less is not that important... Renault/Nissan/Mitsu will likely be one for 2017... and Toyota actually won 2016 despite VW wanting so bad to fake the numbers like they did in 2010.
https://dailykanban.com/2017/10/worl...es-2016-title/
But sure, no boring cars anymore... New generation is liking them crazy.
Yet why does Akio have to tell all his staff to stop making boring cars?
Why do we have to have all these numerous sharped lined cars with firm suspension?
This is what makes cars interesting???
01-17-18, 06:37 PM
#306
Lexus Fanatic
Yes, I happen to like traditional large and luxury sedans.. So does Aron9000....and perhaps a few other posters on Car Chat. But, yes, by today's standards, we are probably in the minority.
01-17-18, 06:44 PM
#307
Lexus Champion
The next big comparison test will likely see Passat vs Avalon and some of the others. The others don't have enough brand cachet here, so they're doing ok but not great. Passat is the one that VW buyers go for more often before they think about Audi vs Toyota buyers choosing Avalon before they buy a Lexus.
Toyota is taking a big risk. Once the car hits showrooms, that will determine what happens. But right now, Passat has the AWD option to keep buyers from fleeing to a butched up crossover. It has also cultivated a brand cachet with sporty image and driving dynamics. Toyota is obviously trying to eat into this market. Hence the styling broo-ha-ha that they wanted to generate. If the Avalon doesn't live up to its edgy styling, then that attention won't last.
01-17-18, 06:50 PM
#308
Lexus Champion
Not really. At one time the Taurus sold is huge numbers, then they redesigned it and the car looked like a deformed egg. SUVs are eating up sales no doubt but the sedan still sells in big numbers from the likes of Honda and Toyota.
Completely different price points/market.
Completely different price points/market.
01-17-18, 06:54 PM
#309
Lexus Fanatic
And yet Passat with its innocuous styling routinely outsells Avalon. Now it's obvious that Passat is sort of an odd outlier in this segment. That's because people don't associate Passat with luxury flagship. They just see it as a nicely optioned longer wheelbase Jetta with nice flourishes before you step up to Audi. With Passat you're still stuck with a transverse fwd biased platform, but with the best of VW's sporty suspension touches. Avalon is not associated with sporty, but with near-Lexus luxury.
The next big comparison test will likely see Passat vs Avalon and some of the others. The others don't have enough brand cachet here, so they're doing ok but not great. Passat is the one that VW buyers go for more often before they think about Audi vs Toyota buyers choosing Avalon before they buy a Lexus.
Toyota is taking a big risk. Once the car hits showrooms, that will determine what happens. But right now, Passat has the AWD option to keep buyers from fleeing to a butched up crossover. It has also cultivated a brand cachet with sporty image and driving dynamics. Toyota is obviously trying to eat into this market. Hence the styling broo-ha-ha that they wanted to generate. If the Avalon doesn't live up to its edgy styling, then that attention won't last.
The next big comparison test will likely see Passat vs Avalon and some of the others. The others don't have enough brand cachet here, so they're doing ok but not great. Passat is the one that VW buyers go for more often before they think about Audi vs Toyota buyers choosing Avalon before they buy a Lexus.
Toyota is taking a big risk. Once the car hits showrooms, that will determine what happens. But right now, Passat has the AWD option to keep buyers from fleeing to a butched up crossover. It has also cultivated a brand cachet with sporty image and driving dynamics. Toyota is obviously trying to eat into this market. Hence the styling broo-ha-ha that they wanted to generate. If the Avalon doesn't live up to its edgy styling, then that attention won't last.
01-17-18, 06:59 PM
#310
Lexus Fanatic
And yet Passat with its innocuous styling routinely outsells Avalon. Now it's obvious that Passat is sort of an odd outlier in this segment. That's because people don't associate Passat with luxury flagship. They just see it as a nicely optioned longer wheelbase Jetta with nice flourishes before you step up to Audi. With Passat you're still stuck with a transverse fwd biased platform, but with the best of VW's sporty suspension touches. Avalon is not associated with sporty, but with near-Lexus luxury.
The next big comparison test will likely see Passat vs Avalon and some of the others. The others don't have enough brand cachet here, so they're doing ok but not great. Passat is the one that VW buyers go for more often before they think about Audi vs Toyota buyers choosing Avalon before they buy a Lexus.
Toyota is taking a big risk. Once the car hits showrooms, that will determine what happens. But right now, Passat has the AWD option to keep buyers from fleeing to a butched up crossover. It has also cultivated a brand cachet with sporty image and driving dynamics. Toyota is obviously trying to eat into this market. Hence the styling broo-ha-ha that they wanted to generate. If the Avalon doesn't live up to its edgy styling, then that attention won't last.
The next big comparison test will likely see Passat vs Avalon and some of the others. The others don't have enough brand cachet here, so they're doing ok but not great. Passat is the one that VW buyers go for more often before they think about Audi vs Toyota buyers choosing Avalon before they buy a Lexus.
Toyota is taking a big risk. Once the car hits showrooms, that will determine what happens. But right now, Passat has the AWD option to keep buyers from fleeing to a butched up crossover. It has also cultivated a brand cachet with sporty image and driving dynamics. Toyota is obviously trying to eat into this market. Hence the styling broo-ha-ha that they wanted to generate. If the Avalon doesn't live up to its edgy styling, then that attention won't last.
New Avalon touring is going to have that floor mounted pedal. It will do fine for Toyota.
01-17-18, 07:00 PM
#311
Lexus Champion
2017 Passat starts at $23580 the 2017 Avalon $39,900.
01-17-18, 07:01 PM
#312
Lexus Fanatic
01-17-18, 07:03 PM
#313
spwolf, like you say, TMC is the richest auto manufacturer in the world with equity [assets less liabilities] of some US$153 billion, while Daimler AG only has US$60+ billion.
Yet why does Akio have to tell all his staff to stop making boring cars?
Why do we have to have all these numerous sharped lined cars with firm suspension?
This is what makes cars interesting???
Yet why does Akio have to tell all his staff to stop making boring cars?
Why do we have to have all these numerous sharped lined cars with firm suspension?
This is what makes cars interesting???
As to the design, i prefer crazy ones from today, to those older models. I also like their interiors much, much better. Keep in mind that it takes 5-6 years to design the car, so I think decisions they are making with Akio on helm are much better than what they made in late 90's.
01-17-18, 07:04 PM
#314
Originally when I saw the new Camry, it didn't really put me off but it did look different (which is what I think Toyota is going for). This Avalon just looks ridiculous with it's stupidly massive grill. I would understand them wanting to inject some sport into the Camry but to me, the Avalon is a smooth/relaxed cruiser. What focus groups are they talking to that suggested a SPORTY Avalon?
Sure Toyota was viewed as bland/boring but that doesn't mean they need to make ALL of their vehicles sporty looking. They should've taken the Camry's front end, classed it up a bit, and left it at that.
Sure Toyota was viewed as bland/boring but that doesn't mean they need to make ALL of their vehicles sporty looking. They should've taken the Camry's front end, classed it up a bit, and left it at that.
01-17-18, 07:16 PM
#315
Pole Position
For some reason Toyota is more successful in the exterior design of SUVs and trucks than cars. I like the look of the RAV 4, Highlander and 4 runner. Even the trucks look good. But for some reason they struggle with car designs. Not just the new Avalon. Look at the new prius, horrible. Or Maybe Toyota cars are designed more for reliability, function , and space and not so much for looks. If Toyota cars looked sexy less people would buy Lexus.
I agree, but then look at the new Camry. It actually looks good. Go figure.