Toys4RJill

You can usualy equate sales performance. Not always, you are right. But for the most part you can't deny sales success.

Can you give an example of something where it did not sell well but it was what people wanted? Hard to find many examples imo.

Toys4RJill

The RX has the option for AVS. Sequoia has it. The Avalons direct competitor the LaCrosse has it as an option. Continental has it. I would think it will have it.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I'm all for the Avalon getting AVS, but not before the more luxurious ES. It's a travesty that it's not currently available on a vehicle that touts comfort (old ES300's had it as an option years ago, go figure).

Toys4RJill

I will amend my Avalon AVS comment. Anything major such as AVS, I would fully expect to be offered on the ES. Now that they are both made in Kentucky, it would only make sense.

pbm317

Looks like it shares the same vestigial "quad" pipes from the Camry. You can see that most (if not all) of the exhaust comes straight through the two inner pipes. The outer ones, just like Camry I'm guessing, are essentially there for looks. Cadenza is definitely a good benchmark for the class.

mmarshall

I have to (respectfully) disagree on the Avalon and Lacrosse. The Avalon/Impala and ES/Lacrosse are more-direct competitors.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i'm not denying any 'sales success', i'm saying you can't attribute higher sales due to a stiffer ride, claiming it's "what people want". i would say avalon buyers do NOT want a stiffer ride.

well people vary for one thing. and selling 'well' is relative, i guess in this case to prior versions, but there's many factors involved besides the features of a given version, such as what competitors came and went, how the demographics of the market change, etc.
reducing it to 'in other words' if 10 'people' out of a potential marketsize of 100 buy a product and for a later version 8 people out of a potential marketsize of 50 buy it, which is more 'successful'?

mmarshall

Correct. Also, a number of people probably bought the 2013 model (again, probably without a thorough test-drive) thinking that it would be just like the relatively cushy-riders that preceded it. Surprise. . That is why one must thoroughly check out what he or she is buying or leasing.....can't always go by previous experience. I was quite surprised myself at the difference in ride (and the hardware inside) between the 3 and 4Gen model....though it was not completely unexpected, as Toyota had done more or less the same thing with some other of its products.

Toys4RJill

I get what you are trying to get at. But, the overall car market did not grow 5X from model year 12 to model 13 when the redesign took place. Sales went from 30k to 70k once the new design Avalon came out. When the 05 debuted, sales were 95K, but Toyota Camry never received the same 3.5 as the Avalon until 07. This is what I am trying to get at, sometimes we think we know more than the manufacturers. It is interesting because with all this bashing about the 13's ride, people conveniently fail to mention that the previous generation in 05 had a regular super soft ride as well as a firmer touring model. How do we know the take rate might of been higher for the touring ride before the 2013 model debuted. Well, we don't. Maybe Toyota knows more than we know?

Toys4RJill

The starting MSRP facts are:

Impala $27,500
LaCrosse $29,400
Avalon $33,500
ES350 $38,900

mmarshall

Bears out what I said...the Impala is cheaper than the Lacrosse, and the Avalon cheaper than the ES. So the Avalon/Impala and ES/Lacrosse are actually the two closer set of competitors.

Impala $27,500......Avalon $33,500
LaCrosse $29,400.....ES350 $38,900

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

the model prior to the '13 was a dinosaur, so no surprise the '13 sales were a lot higher. but we can speculate all day and night.

Toys4RJill

I guess we can speculate, however sales numbers are raw facts that are hard to argue with. Contrast the discussion with the Buick LaCrosse which received a redesign in 2017 yet the sales figures actually decreased from the year before in the final year of the last gen model, can we infer that perhaps GM missed what buyers really want in the new 2017? Then look back at the LaCrosse 2010 redesign which ended up doubling its numbers from the outgoing model of 2009, why has the current model not caught on? I think the 2010 design had a bit of more sporty or firm feel (but still nice riding)

I am actually surprised Toyota is committed to the Avalon for the 2019 model. I thought they would cancel the model to be honest. Sales figures are a few years away however with all this talk about cross overs and SUVs, I would not be surprised if sales were to increase as Toyota is a pretty strong brand, I will be shocked to learn if sales were double while going to a much softer suspension. I do predict an AVS type suspension this time around and big MSRP price increase. I don't expect the new Avalon sales to match the 13 sales, but I would expect at least 20K increase in units moved.

But back to the LaCrosse for a second, I test drove the 17 out of pure curiosity and all the talk and multiple threads about the car in this Lexus forum. I thought the vehicle was wonderful and definitely an excellent product. I think my comments were that the LaCrosse was much better driving than the Lexus ES. GM absolutely nailed the ride quality. But the big disappointment is that it is clearly not selling well, and generally speaking sales in the first year of redesigns should produce an increase.

BrownPride

But the real questions is,

Why would anybody spend that much $$ on a Toyota?

Toys4RJill

Yes. Toyota is not an economical brand, its a full on mainstream brand that has and always had some premium products. The price points of 4Runner, Highlander, Tundra, Sequoia, and of course Land Crusier can all be purchase at very high MSRP.

For those too young to remember, in the past, MR2, Supra, Cressida, were among some of the past examples of Toyota models that were considered a premium. .