Will wagons ever be cool again in america?
#16
Do they really sell ?
cuz honestly they're pretty frumpy looking.
we have different tastes though.
I think a good reason wagons never sold well in america was that they were usually damn ugly like a hearse and didn't look cool enough.
People wanted space? wagons had that. But people skipped over them for Navigators and Exploders.
Hopefully these premium brands change that perception.
cuz honestly they're pretty frumpy looking.
we have different tastes though.
I think a good reason wagons never sold well in america was that they were usually damn ugly like a hearse and didn't look cool enough.
People wanted space? wagons had that. But people skipped over them for Navigators and Exploders.
Hopefully these premium brands change that perception.
#17
I understand what you are saying, but the Forester, with its super-conservative squared-off styling and large square windows (for easy visibility) is probably more of a traditional wagon than its CUV competition, which includes the likes of the RAV-4, CR-V, Outlander, CX-5, Escape, etc.... Those competing vehicles are certainly in the same class, but not as traditional-wagon-styled as the Forester.
#18
#19
and marshall, the forester may be 'squared off' but that just makes it an ugly cuv, not a station wagon.
#20
and marshall, the forester may be 'squared off' but that just makes it an ugly cuv, not a station wagon.
(the Legacy Wagon is no longer sold in the U.S.).
I owned an Outback for six years (as you know)...and I can tell you, from my own experience, that it's the King of the snow-cars. That's why it's the official vehicle of the U.S. Olympic Ski Team.
And, the box-styling that you call "ugly" on the Forester adds greatly to its utility, space-efficiency, room for tall persons, and outward visibility.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-27-17 at 08:52 PM.
#21
Goodness... That Jag and the Panamera wagon all look like sex on wheels. Seriously, those are beautiful, sleek yet very practical cars. The Cayenne and F-Pace look like porky dumplings in comparison.
There's only one SUV that I'd consider over all these wagons: the Alfa Stelvio. I saw a fleet of 'em roaring up a mountain road, probably on a test drive event, and they looked sensational.
There's only one SUV that I'd consider over all these wagons: the Alfa Stelvio. I saw a fleet of 'em roaring up a mountain road, probably on a test drive event, and they looked sensational.
#22
#23
If automakers offered AWD on smaller cars with a hatch, like the Corolla IM, or a Camry wagon with AWD you would see more wagons. To get AWD and hatch capability, you have to step up to a CUV. That was not always the case as for example Toyota was offering AWD Camry wagons in the past, Matrix AWD hatches, as well as the Venzas. I believe a new Buick wagon is coming.
#24
Well, SUVs, wth their raised ground-clearance and AWD, are more flexible in bad weather, but, except for the giant SUVs of the Suburban/Expedition-EL class, minivans are still the King of the people-movers.
Well, I'll respect your opinion, but if you look at the Forester's platform, it's an AWD Impreza chassis/drivetrain with a classic two-box wagon body on it....just as the Outback is a Legacy Wagon on a raised-suspension
(the Legacy Wagon is no longer sold in the U.S.).
I owned an Outback for six years (as you know)...and I can tell you, from my own experience, that it's the King of the snow-cars. That's why it's the official vehicle of the U.S. Olympic Ski Team.
And, the box-styling that you call "ugly" on the Forester adds greatly to its utility, space-efficiency, room for tall persons, and outward visibility.
Well, I'll respect your opinion, but if you look at the Forester's platform, it's an AWD Impreza chassis/drivetrain with a classic two-box wagon body on it....just as the Outback is a Legacy Wagon on a raised-suspension
(the Legacy Wagon is no longer sold in the U.S.).
I owned an Outback for six years (as you know)...and I can tell you, from my own experience, that it's the King of the snow-cars. That's why it's the official vehicle of the U.S. Olympic Ski Team.
And, the box-styling that you call "ugly" on the Forester adds greatly to its utility, space-efficiency, room for tall persons, and outward visibility.
#25
Yeah, I'd say a wagon has to use sedan underpinnings and a similar body, although the suspension can have more ground clearance. All wagons share the same seat height as their sedan cousins, whereas crossovers and SUVs (even those based on the same sedan platform) have higher seat heights, more upright driving positions and overall taller bodies.
Anyway, going off topic a bit but the Bollinger B1 electric Jeep looks fantastic. It's got more ground clearance than most people need, a crazy powerful Tesla-style drivetrain and enough cargo space to carry some sheep in the back.
Anyway, going off topic a bit but the Bollinger B1 electric Jeep looks fantastic. It's got more ground clearance than most people need, a crazy powerful Tesla-style drivetrain and enough cargo space to carry some sheep in the back.
#27
The Rav4 is based on the same platform as the Corolla and Prius and the CR-V uses the same platform as the Civic. Platform sharing with a car doesn't make it a wagon. If we're using two box + platform sharing as the criteria for a wagon, the Highlander, the RX, the Pilot and basically any crossover SUV will all be considered wagons.
Well, you've hit on one of the more difficult things in the auto industry to determine....just exactly where to draw the line between an SUV, crossover, and wagon. As I see it, though (and a number of product analysts do as well, including Consumer Reports), the Forester and Outback are somewhat closer to their basic sedan-platform underpinnings (Impreza and Legacy) than the Toyota and Honda SUVs/CUVs are to their Corolla/Camry and Civic/Accord underpinnings.
#28
Get this....Lee Iacocca and Hal Sperlich, who were at Ford at the time, actually wanted to do a minivan back in the 1970s. Iacocca, of course, had been the driving force behind the hugely successful Mustang in the 1960s. Later, after Henry Ford II, in his well-known arrogance and stubbornness, had fired both of them, they wound up together again over at Chrysler, out of King Henry's reach. There, of course, they were able to develop the Caravan/Voyager minivan and actually bring it to market. The rest, like the Mustang, is history.
#29
The Jaguar looks amazing - it's just a shame that the XF doesn't offer more engine options, especially since it is a smaller, lighter platform than the E-Class and so a performance variant would have certain advantages over the AMG.
As far as wagons generally - I'm surprised no has mentioned the big elephant in the room, which is CAFE standards and gas guzzler tax. As we know, many CUVs/SUVs/crossovers on truck/light truck platforms have the exact same footprint and cargo area as station wagons classified as passenger cars, but the light/trucks are exempt from gas guzzler tax - implicitly making the respective station wagons less competitive. It won't account for all the "cool" factor, but if American companies aren't developing and marketing station wagons and foreign companies aren't marketing station wagons and bringing them to the US, there's necessarily going to be drop in interest from consumers.
As far as wagons generally - I'm surprised no has mentioned the big elephant in the room, which is CAFE standards and gas guzzler tax. As we know, many CUVs/SUVs/crossovers on truck/light truck platforms have the exact same footprint and cargo area as station wagons classified as passenger cars, but the light/trucks are exempt from gas guzzler tax - implicitly making the respective station wagons less competitive. It won't account for all the "cool" factor, but if American companies aren't developing and marketing station wagons and foreign companies aren't marketing station wagons and bringing them to the US, there's necessarily going to be drop in interest from consumers.
#30
Well, you've hit on one of the more difficult things in the auto industry to determine....just exactly where to draw the line between an SUV, crossover, and wagon. As I see it, though (and a number of product analysts do as well, including Consumer Reports), the Forester and Outback are somewhat closer to their basic sedan-platform underpinnings (Impreza and Legacy) than the Toyota and Honda SUVs/CUVs are to their Corolla/Camry and Civic/Accord underpinnings.
cuv's/suv's have much heigher ground clearance typically, and a much more upright interior and car space, regardless of what platform they're on.
a more gray area is what bmw has done with their successful gran coupes and coupe-like x models like x6 which are basically cuv's/suv's with a more coupe like back hatch.
a friend just got rid of (surprise) and unreliable but sexy jag coupe (xk-f i think) and got a bmw x6