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my '15 jeep grand cherokee, while an 'american car' has its roots in the mercedes ml when they owned chrysler. so it should be horribly unreliable, right?
well i think '17 is the last year of this gen so at least the one i got had the benefit of years of working the kinks out, and so far, with over 30k mi., no issues.
I can't speak for 2012+, but prior, there was a reason why a BMW 3 series had been on the 10 Best list for 23 years in a row. It simply drove differently than the average car. imho, the steering is absolutely perfect.
My cousin who basically went from Honda to a BMW M3 then M5, said that one cannot simply build these cars from scratch. They come from real world racing experience, and years upon years of refinement.
What Lexus introduced in fall 1989 was revolutionary. BMW accused them of selling the LS400 for below cost. Why didn't Lexus continue along this path and eclipse their German rivals?
Reliability. My ABS/DSC hydro pump failed on my 335i at 49k. I ripped it out myself, it was made in Hungary. It's not made in Germany. Water pumps fail anywhere from 40k to 120k. Does one think for one minute, that Germans cannot build a ABS pump to last the life of the vehicle, or a water pump to last longer than 40k? Of course they can. It's not a priority, performance is. Think about it, every single car is near 50/50 weight distribution, how much extra cost has to go into the design? Hats of rotors are riveted to the discs to save 4 lbs. per corner. Are there instances of the Japanese doing such? Not really, it costs too much and their audience isn't looking for it and not willing to pay.
Back in 2007, you could get an entry level 328i stick for 33k. You could get a loaded G35S stick for $39k. Two completely different cars. One was a sports car, one was a sporty car.
In the last 5 years I've had so many BMW loaners, incl. one for 4 1/2 mos., and unfortunately, the steering is c***. My buddy texted me just this week how ******* the steering is on the 2017 A4 loaner he was given. So it could very well be that even the Germans can no longer design sports cars and keep their cos. profitable. They need to cater to the audience.
Simply marketing dictates engineering. They're not building best cars possibly they can produce. They are making cars will make most dollars and cents. BMW, Bentz
are made to last 4 years(the duration of warranty) Original price of car already included warranty cost. Understanding this if one wishes to drive such cars, just lease.
My family keeps two BMWs warranty period is staggered. Every two years one is replaced by new and so on. Nowadays most home appliances are built same way.
The term over-engineered in that context means overly complex. For example VW uses a ridiculously complicated and fail prone PCV system instead of a ball in a tube which works just as well.
I do don't agree that over engineered is overly complex. I think it means a variety of things.
my '15 jeep grand cherokee, while an 'american car' has its roots in the mercedes ml when they owned chrysler. so it should be horribly unreliable, right?
Yes...this idea that German products are unreliable is only partially correct. The Buick Verano is a redone German Opel Astra....Consumer Reports ranks it the Most Reliable American-badged vehicle for sale. All of the Opel-based Buicks (Verano, Cascada, Regal, Encore) are above average in reliability. And, recently, Audis have improved to well-above average in reliability.
JGCs seem to vary quite a bit in reliability. Some (fortunately, like yours), have proven reliable.....Others have not.
That was apparently only one individual car, from one owner, for one model year, eleven years old (2006), and with a different engine than Buick uses here for the Verano. Consumer Reports relies on tens of thousands of surveys....sometimes hundreds of thousands.
my '15 jeep grand cherokee, while an 'american car' has its roots in the mercedes ml when they owned chrysler. so it should be horribly unreliable, right?
well i think '17 is the last year of this gen so at least the one i got had the benefit of years of working the kinks out, and so far, with over 30k mi., no issues.
I hope a Jeep can make it to 30K without a major meltdown under its warranty. Even an inexpensive Kia can do that. What I find problematic with Jeeps like the GC is their porky 5000 lb curb weight for their supposed mission in life. And that means you buy the commuter scooter minivan Pentastar 3.6, or you go for the Hemi.
Styling? Very nice. Getting the Daimler ML platform under the mattress on a Chryco product with Chryco/Fiat stuff sitting on top? Priceless.
That weight, particularly sprung-weight (which is weight above the suspension) can add to ride comfort...and safety in a crash.
But then we get back to the idea that you still have a bunch of pork riding around on a suspension that is basically a commuter scooter. Never mind what true off roading means with weight issues. This is an old concept. Pontiac's "road hugging" weight. IMHO I see manufacturers doing astonishing things with chassis stiffness and new techniques to make cars lighter and yet still be very solid. Porsche knows this and so does Honda for eg.
No, this is just domestic SUV craze, bigger is better and "buy the hamburger by the pound" mentality. If I wanted to be totally safe, I need to ride around in a tank or a LAV.
That weight, particularly sprung-weight (which is weight above the suspension) can add to ride comfort...and safety in a crash.
We must be careful, because it is not maximum sprung weight alone that benefits ride, but the maximum ratio between sprung to unsprung weight that benefits ride, because the heavier the wheel and tire, the more momentum and kinetic energy is imparted onto the body of the motor car after impact with a bump!
The sprung body then has to be proportionately heavier to counter that impact.
Therefore, a sedan actually has a bigger ratio between sprung to unsprung weight compared to an SUV, whose sprung to unsprung weight ratio isn't as high due to the extra weight of the larger rolling diameter tires and wheels in the interests of a higher ground clearance.
Hence I find that the new RX350's are neither as smooth riding, nor as quiet as the ES or GS350's.
Originally Posted by MattyG
But then we get back to the idea that you still have a bunch of pork riding around on a suspension that is basically a commuter scooter. Never mind what true off roading means with weight issues. This is an old concept. Pontiac's "road hugging" weight. IMHO I see manufacturers doing astonishing things with chassis stiffness and new techniques to make cars lighter and yet still be very solid. Porsche knows this and so does Honda for eg.
No, this is just domestic SUV craze, bigger is better and "buy the hamburger by the pound" mentality. If I wanted to be totally safe, I need to ride around in a tank or a LAV.
I suspect it's not just a craze, but modern reality that people want bigger - not via the old inefficient extra length and width, but via modern day vertical growth of SUV's.
I may be in the minority here but I don't see this as a "beautiful exterior design".
You're not the only one, I think some Mercedes models are downright ugly for example the one you posted. The "I'm melting" look is not attractive and won't age well either.
I may be in the minority here but I don't see this as a "beautiful exterior design".
This is ugly, and FWD based. But why does such a vehicle exist? A former friend texted me one with an AMG badge (we could also get into the C430 AMG, Do you even AMG, bro?), and her text said, check this out! How much does this run for, $120k? Bet their owners love that.
I wish all the manufactures would get away from the tear drop design, its as bad as the other extreme of years past the BOX.
They should look at the challenger for some design ideas.
I may be in the minority here but I don't see this as a "beautiful exterior design".
I'm with you. I've posted before, in the past, on how annoying, IMO, small slit-windows and humpback-rooflines can be. The current trend in sedans (and many automakers share in this) seems to be to try and make them all look like coupes.
08-03-17, 09:15 AM
