b2884987

If the German engineers can excel at anything, they are good at designing their cars' exterior looks.

On the other hand... Yeah. Electronics, plastic parts, and reliability (aside from Porsche).

Can someone explain why? I really love the way their car looks (WAY better than Lexus' current generation ugly grilles). I would buy one by now in a heartbeat if they made their cars reliable.

Japanese engineers and German engineers should get together and design the perfect car. The Japanese engineers then can be responsible for engine and performance department, and the German engineers can be responsible for the design department. How will that work out?

Toys4RJill

Some of the exterior designs of the Germans can be hit and miss, just as some of the Lexus designs can look really good.

As for the reliability part, not everyone looks to reliability as their go to thing when buying car.

Fizzboy7

Some German makes are doing much better than Asian makes. For example, Honda has been slipping a lot as of late while Audi has risen to near the top. BMW is doing better too. One constant seems to be Toyota and Lexus, which have remained near the top with only a few small blips over the last twenty years. Overall, most brands are doing much better these days with the exception of a few- Fiat, Chrysler, and many Fords. At least with Ford, much of it relates to the operation of onboard electronics. A lot of brands are being dragged down in ratings due to hard to use or glitchy systems. Not really a poor reliability thing in my opinion, but it gets thrown in anyway.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Very simple, Germans always try to be the first ones with latest tech and often rush it to the consumer without enough testing. Also they have a lot of massively powerful engines where drivetrains, transmissions and cooling systems are not always up to par. It often takes Lexus 5-10 years to catch up to the Germans, if they even catch up at all.

That being said, I don't want to wait 5-10 years, this is why I just lease German and not worry about reliability.

SW17LS

This is a pretty accurate assessment IMHO...

Johnhav430

The long story short is priorities.

I can't speak for 2012+, but prior, there was a reason why a BMW 3 series had been on the 10 Best list for 23 years in a row. It simply drove differently than the average car. imho, the steering is absolutely perfect.

My cousin who basically went from Honda to a BMW M3 then M5, said that one cannot simply build these cars from scratch. They come from real world racing experience, and years upon years of refinement.

What Lexus introduced in fall 1989 was revolutionary. BMW accused them of selling the LS400 for below cost. Why didn't Lexus continue along this path and eclipse their German rivals?

Reliability. My ABS/DSC hydro pump failed on my 335i at 49k. I ripped it out myself, it was made in Hungary. It's not made in Germany. Water pumps fail anywhere from 40k to 120k. Does one think for one minute, that Germans cannot build a ABS pump to last the life of the vehicle, or a water pump to last longer than 40k? Of course they can. It's not a priority, performance is. Think about it, every single car is near 50/50 weight distribution, how much extra cost has to go into the design? Hats of rotors are riveted to the discs to save 4 lbs. per corner. Are there instances of the Japanese doing such? Not really, it costs too much and their audience isn't looking for it and not willing to pay.

Back in 2007, you could get an entry level 328i stick for 33k. You could get a loaded G35S stick for $39k. Two completely different cars. One was a sports car, one was a sporty car.

In the last 5 years I've had so many BMW loaners, incl. one for 4 1/2 mos., and unfortunately, the steering is c***. My buddy texted me just this week how ******* the steering is on the 2017 A4 loaner he was given. So it could very well be that even the Germans can no longer design sports cars and keep their cos. profitable. They need to cater to the audience.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

50/50 weight dist is boring marketing speak. What really matters is weight distribution during braking and acceleration, not when standing still. For performance, rear bias is more ideal, like in mid engine car. Closer to 50/50 during braking, and more weight on the rear for acceleration

german stuff is always overengineered therefore less reliable. Tiger and Panther tanks in WW2 down to H&Ks MR556 rifle where you hvae to use a tool to take down the rifle, whereas every other AR15 on the planet doesnt.

Johnhav430

LOL that's out of a 370Z brochure. BMW weights the driver seat when performing a 4 wheel alignment, I have heard that to be a useless added task (I tend to agree, how do they know if you weigh 50 or 100 kilos?).

What about reducing 4 lbs. of unsprung weight? Japanese tend to use stamped steel control arms even on cars > $80k, imho they spent the money on technology rather than underpinnings...

Can't we just go back to talking about Buicks? j/k

edit: here it is right out of a Nissan brochure--they can't get enough weight to the rear, so.....

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

I dunno about beautiful exteriors as of late, many of them just look bland bland bland 3/5/7 look similar other than size, even the S looks like a C ignoring the size

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

No need to make it last 10 years when the lease is only 36 months. heh.

Johnhav430

I think like with anything else, resources are scarce, more so today, than before. Why in the world would a car co. in 2007 (German) put a true dual exhaust, with a list price for the components being $6,300, on a car that base prices for $40,600? Fake duals had already existed on Lexus since the 90's, what is the purpose of deploying a true dual exhaust (honestly not too many people crawl under a car and look)? For that tiny theoretical advantage? Of course, by 2014 or so it did become fake, and cost 1/4 the amount.

Why on Lexus' 3rd gen flagship, does the driver door actuator break, the tilt and the telescope motors go bad, the mirrors become unadjustable, etc.? Could Toyota Motor have used better components? Of course they could have. If we want to talk about who has the smarter engineers, I would say they are equal. What comes out as a product is more politics and accounting etc.

One person says I want forged aluminum control arms as they are stronger and lighter. Another says stamped steel is ok with me I've never weighed my car before and I'd rather have cool LED running lights...

I would tend to agree leasing has something to do with it. Most cars will be fully warranted and even some have free maintenance, for the duration of the lease, so who cares, right? It's not your car, if it breaks, take it back and they give you another to drive anyway....this becomes unfortunate for those who buy...

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

when many of them are just leased then released, what drive is there for reliability

RXSF

I dont think german reliability is as bad as people on here think. They hear stories or have experienced a german car form the 90s and all of a sudden they will never touch a german car. As an industry, everyone has moved forward to improve so the relative scale JD powers or CR is using is doesn't mean as much to me

SW17LS

Agreed, it's really not.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

looks and image sells

and, we dont fix things no more. we just throw it out and move onto the next

too many memes about this as of late