Lexus LS500 reviews and discussion
02-24-18, 06:23 PM
#151
Lexus Fanatic
$100k is pretty fully loaded. It’s $25k cheaper than a comparable S450. Much higher performance than the S450 too.
02-24-18, 06:30 PM
#152
Lexus Fanatic
It also begs the question, at least as I see it, if the Mercedes S-class is overpriced, especially in relation to its competition. Of course, in capitalism, though, one charges what he or she can get. If people are willing to pay it, that's that. And, indeed, it's hard to beat the road manners of an S550...one could argue that, short of a Rolls or Bentley, the S wrote the book on comfort.
02-24-18, 06:44 PM
#153
Of all the reviews including YouTube reviews of the 5LS over the past several months, finally a more detailed review of 5LS ride and refinement.
Back in the 1980's, it was S Class versus 7 Series versus Jaguar XJ.
Back then, the low height Jaguar XJ always had a handling/ride balance that was not found in S Class nor 7 Series.
Ditto Subaru WRX vs Porsche 911, or Nissan Skyline Godzilla vs Porsche 911 - the 911 had a combination of handling/ride not found in either WRX nor Godzilla; the latter two which were generally "rock hard".
What was the Jaguar XJ & Porsche 911's secret to handling/ride success?
They were low, with a low center of gravity, to naturally resist body roll, to reduce weight transfer to the outside wheels, to maximize grip, without the need to use firm coil springs to reduce body roll.
Hence, the all new low standing 5LS.
However, keep in mind that the Jaguar XJ, Porsche 911 and even 5LS all have a rather "compact" interior cabin.
NVH
The bigger the engine capacity, the greater the reciprocating mass, hence the greater the primary and secondary piston engine balance forces, hence the greater the NVH.
However, just as I don't mind the big heavy Mazda CX-9 CUV using a 2.5L 4 cylinder turbo for extra capacity & torque, I really don't mind the 5LS using a 3.5L V6 TT either - due to the full size luxury sedan's heavy weight!
Indeed, my GS350's 3.5 V6 is one of the roughest idling, and one of the coarsest revving V6 that I have owned over the past 30+ years - however when pottering around town day to day, the 3.5 V6 purrs effortlessly.
It would be great if TMC could "invest" in a 3.0 V6 TT for the smaller & lighter IS & GS for a much smoother idle, and much smoother revving, because the IS and GS are both more likely to be full throttled than the 5LS.
Back in the 1980's, it was S Class versus 7 Series versus Jaguar XJ.
Back then, the low height Jaguar XJ always had a handling/ride balance that was not found in S Class nor 7 Series.
Ditto Subaru WRX vs Porsche 911, or Nissan Skyline Godzilla vs Porsche 911 - the 911 had a combination of handling/ride not found in either WRX nor Godzilla; the latter two which were generally "rock hard".
What was the Jaguar XJ & Porsche 911's secret to handling/ride success?
They were low, with a low center of gravity, to naturally resist body roll, to reduce weight transfer to the outside wheels, to maximize grip, without the need to use firm coil springs to reduce body roll.
Hence, the all new low standing 5LS.
However, keep in mind that the Jaguar XJ, Porsche 911 and even 5LS all have a rather "compact" interior cabin.
NVH
The bigger the engine capacity, the greater the reciprocating mass, hence the greater the primary and secondary piston engine balance forces, hence the greater the NVH.
However, just as I don't mind the big heavy Mazda CX-9 CUV using a 2.5L 4 cylinder turbo for extra capacity & torque, I really don't mind the 5LS using a 3.5L V6 TT either - due to the full size luxury sedan's heavy weight!
Indeed, my GS350's 3.5 V6 is one of the roughest idling, and one of the coarsest revving V6 that I have owned over the past 30+ years - however when pottering around town day to day, the 3.5 V6 purrs effortlessly.
It would be great if TMC could "invest" in a 3.0 V6 TT for the smaller & lighter IS & GS for a much smoother idle, and much smoother revving, because the IS and GS are both more likely to be full throttled than the 5LS.
02-24-18, 06:58 PM
#154
Lexus Fanatic
From what I have heard, AMG and Jaguar super charged models are not quiet. The coarseness is by design. So is the added noise. Lexus does not want people to leave the car with a quiet silent experience. Lexus is trying to become a passionate car enthusiast type of brand.
Overall though the LS500 is very quiet, very similar to the LS460 and all the other cars in the segment.
to me a luxury flagship sedan should be ROOMY. i was just (unfortunately) in a funeral in england and the car I rode in as part of the 'cortege' (funeral procession) was a giant daimler sedan about 30 years old. it had 3 rows of seats and was awesome. acres of burled walnut on the front dash... really great.
It also begs the question, at least as I see it, if the Mercedes S-class is overpriced, especially in relation to its competition. Of course, in capitalism, though, one charges what he or she can get. If people are willing to pay it, that's that. And, indeed, it's hard to beat the road manners of an S550...one could argue that, short of a Rolls or Bentley, the S wrote the book on comfort.
I think that will come. This engine is MUCH smoother and quieter at idle than the 3.5L V6 in the GS.
02-24-18, 08:05 PM
#155
Lexus Fanatic
I've driven those vehicles and I see what you're saying, all I can say though the "noise" and "raucousness" of those engines are "pleasing", the coarseness I felt in some rev ranges on the TT V6 was not, same of with wind noise. It may be that they were attempting to create a more "visceral" experience a'la those car, but if thats the case they failed IMHO. Like I said before, they aren't "desirable" noises, and they aren't noises you feel or hear in say the LC500...the V8 in the LC is louder than the engine in the LS500, but its smoother and more refined. Thats an example of deliberate pleasing sound.
Here is an excerpt from MT.
“After the sensory overload of the Lexus’ electronics, the G90 is a welcome respite. Hop in the cabin, shut the door, and you’re in a peaceful sensory deprivation chamber. You know, like Lexuses used to be”
So above describes pretty much exactly what the 460 is supposed to be. But it is ok for Genesis to get away with it. Even so to be compared to the S class in a next level comparo. Yet the Lexus Ls500 is supposed to be better than the outgoing LS according to C & D.
I also think that when something is too well reviewed or to critically acclaimed, it can go against it. Movies seem to have this problem. If the LS500 was everything it currently is but was silent and more relaxed looking, reviews would brand it as too quiet, dull and non-engaging. Exterior would simply be called boring.
As for the interior. I think it was done so on purpose. Good clothing seems to fit better. I sat in the new A8 at the autoshow, it was not all that much more roomy inside. Seemed to be nice fitting. LS500 as well.
02-24-18, 08:27 PM
#156
Lexus Fanatic
Well, all I’ll say is that I don’t feel that coarseness in the engines of the competition and I don’t see that in any way as a desirable feel or noise, and it’s not the sort of thing I feel in vehicles that are supposed to have raucous fun sounding motors.
It reminded me of the sort of coarseness I found in the engine in my Kia Sedona, not anything you’d find in an AMG Benz, etc.
Ive also never heard anybody exclaim about their high performance car, “I love that wind noise”
It reminded me of the sort of coarseness I found in the engine in my Kia Sedona, not anything you’d find in an AMG Benz, etc.
Ive also never heard anybody exclaim about their high performance car, “I love that wind noise”
02-24-18, 08:31 PM
#157
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
02-24-18, 08:42 PM
#158
Lexus Fanatic
Correct, my test car was missing the executive package, it had the luxury package. The executive package is $17k, $23k with the kriko cut glass, but it replaces a couple other packages. Fully fully loaded car would be about $113k AWD, $111k RWD.
Last edited by SW17LS; 02-24-18 at 08:46 PM.
02-24-18, 08:55 PM
#159
Lexus Fanatic
Well, all I’ll say is that I don’t feel that coarseness in the engines of the competition and I don’t see that in any way as a desirable feel or noise, and it’s not the sort of thing I feel in vehicles that are supposed to have raucous fun sounding motors.
It reminded me of the sort of coarseness I found in the engine in my Kia Sedona, not anything you’d find in an AMG Benz, etc.
Ive also never heard anybody exclaim about their high performance car, “I love that wind noise”
It reminded me of the sort of coarseness I found in the engine in my Kia Sedona, not anything you’d find in an AMG Benz, etc.
Ive also never heard anybody exclaim about their high performance car, “I love that wind noise”
02-24-18, 09:01 PM
#160
Lexus Fanatic
I’m not making comparisons to my own car though...
Having driven all of these cars I just don’t think anybody is going to find the engine in the LS500 as the best feeling engine in the segment, let’s put it that way. When you drive it I think you’ll see it too.
Having driven all of these cars I just don’t think anybody is going to find the engine in the LS500 as the best feeling engine in the segment, let’s put it that way. When you drive it I think you’ll see it too.
02-25-18, 02:55 AM
#161
Dysfunctional Veteran
I've driven those vehicles and I see what you're saying, all I can say though the "noise" and "raucousness" of those engines are "pleasing", the coarseness I felt in some rev ranges on the TT V6 was not, same of with wind noise. It may be that they were attempting to create a more "visceral" experience a'la those car, but if thats the case they failed IMHO. Like I said before, they aren't "desirable" noises, and they aren't noises you feel or hear in say the LC500...the V8 in the LC is louder than the engine in the LS500, but its smoother and more refined. Thats an example of deliberate pleasing sound.
I think that will come. This engine is MUCH smoother and quieter at idle than the 3.5L V6 in the GS.
I think that will come. This engine is MUCH smoother and quieter at idle than the 3.5L V6 in the GS.
It's my opinion that Lexus (for whatever reason) is trying to bring the LS more into competition with the Porsche Panamera class of vehicles. I haven't ridden in or driven the new LS, but I have driven a Panamera Turbo, and I have to say, it was sublime. Smooth, fast, loud engine when I wanted it, but very little road noise and even less wind noise. Yes I realize there is a bit of a price gap between the LS500 and the Panamera (I think the Panamera starts around $150k IIRC), which technically puts it into a different class of car. But it really seems to me that Lexus is trying to steer its flagship that direction. This is a mistake in my opinion, and I think sales will most likely reflect that.
I guess what I am ultimately saying is that unless its a convertible, a flagship sedan in the $100k+ territory should be the most comfortable, quietest, smoothest and not-cheap-feeling car in the lineup...hence the term "flagship".
02-25-18, 05:44 AM
#162
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
^^^ great post!
wait, what? You're saying there are no new customers that value a serene car? well, you're wrong!
Yes it's only been outselling the ls lol
You can according to MT get that with the G90,but it has non existent sales numbers.
02-25-18, 06:03 AM
#163
Lexus Fanatic
You can get all of this from a G90 or S Class. So what is the point of Lexus doing the same? Instead, Lexus goes a different direction. And you are presuming the Lexus LS is not quiet? It is, it just offers something that will guaranteed to evoke an opinion. It is something different and distinct. Also, Lexus for ever was branded boring and dull.....How did the get that rep? Quiet, tomb like and no spindle.
02-25-18, 07:05 AM
#164
Lexus Fanatic
I just want to make sure we're being fair when we're talking about "wind noise". The wind noise I heard was not loud, or sounding like a window was open, etc. It was buffeting around the top of the windshield and around the A pillar at 70-80 MPH that stood out to me when driving the car with no radio and specifically listening for wind noise. When I drove my LS460L along the same road with the radio off afterwards also looking for the same noise, I didn't find it. Could it have been a slightly misaligned seal? Could I have been driving into a headwind in the LS500 that wasn't present 45 minutes later when I was in the LS460L? Could have been, but I didn't have time to drive the F Sport one they had to compare, and didn't want to take up more of the salesman's time.
This sound if it is something that is present on all units (which I think it is based on reviews) is not a sound anybody intended to be there, but its also not a huge deal either. By and large from a road/wind noise perspective the car is very similar to mine, and very similar to an S Class or G90. The big thing that stands out in the LS500's cabin vs the LS460L from a sound perspective is engine sound. That is by design I'm sure, the engine note is more pronounced in the new car than the old, issue is the engine note isn't very nice.
This sound if it is something that is present on all units (which I think it is based on reviews) is not a sound anybody intended to be there, but its also not a huge deal either. By and large from a road/wind noise perspective the car is very similar to mine, and very similar to an S Class or G90. The big thing that stands out in the LS500's cabin vs the LS460L from a sound perspective is engine sound. That is by design I'm sure, the engine note is more pronounced in the new car than the old, issue is the engine note isn't very nice.
02-25-18, 07:15 AM
#165
Lexus Fanatic
All fair points you made in your post. But we here are a little bias towards Toyota Motor Corp products. Hard for me to believe you would ever be satisfied with engine notes coming from Lexus LS cars seeing how you have had many LS past vehicles.
What I want to know is what potential conquest test drivers think about it? Perhaps we need to peruse a few MB or BMW forums.
What I want to know is what potential conquest test drivers think about it? Perhaps we need to peruse a few MB or BMW forums.