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All fair points you made in your post. But we here are a little bias towards Toyota Motor Corp products. Hard for me to believe you would ever be satisfied with engine notes coming from Lexus LS cars seeing how you have had many LS past vehicles.
I'm satisfied with the engine note/feel in a 740 and 750, G90 3.3T and 5.0. S550, I'm satisfied with the engine note in the Mercedes E63S I rode in last week which was very loud. I'm satisfied with the engine note in the 3.6 V6 and 3.0TT Cadillac CT5s I drove. Satisfied with the Supercharged V6 in the Jaguar/Land Rover Products. Its not that I'm "not satisfied" with the 3.5TT in the LS500 either, but that coarseness is there at several points in the rev band that you would tie into when driving every day and is there at WOT in a way that is not present in V6 powertrains in the competition. Having driven basically all of them I would say from a smoothness/refinement basis the 3.5TT in the LS500 lags behind its competitors.
I'm not some guy who comes around looking at everything from the lens of what I have, I drive a *lot* of cars.
What I want to know is what potential conquest test drivers think about it? Perhaps we need to peruse a few MB or BMW forums.
My local Lexus Dealer just got their first few 2018 LS500 sedans and they called to offer me a test drive. How could I refuse? It was a short, 15 minute drive, but I came away with the feeling that this is not the ever-so-special car that has been so hyped for the last 18 to 24 months.
First off, the Turbo V6 feels and sounds like a V6, which to me, in a high end luxury sedan, just doesn’t feel or sound right. The fact that I could actually HEAR the engine was amazing to me. This new car has been touted as something unworldly and was supposed to be near silent. Not so. As a matter of fact, it sounded noisier than any of the eight V8 LS sedans I have owned.
I have to agree with him in this car, but notably I did not feel that way when I drove the 740 or the G90 3.3TT, or the CT5 30TT.
Yeah I read MBWorld from time to time lol, they have a lot of the same problems we do!
I also wanted to make sure it was clear that although we have been discussing mainly my criticisms, its not that I don't like the car, I do like the car a lot and I think they did a good job moving it towards what it is they want to be without giving up all of what made the car what is in the first place. While I'm not sorry I didn't wait and got my 2017, I went into driving it thinking it would be a car that I wouldn't like, and thats just not the case. Overall if my lease were up and the LS460s were gone and the 500 was what a "new LS" was I would likely get one.
Although there will always be a hint of bias, the MB thread was pretty open-minded. The S-Class owners seemed intrigued by the car, but ultimately letdown. I'm still excited to sit in one and see for myself.
Agreed. But you are coming from a car that is whisper quiet and tomb like quiet, your past Lexus models were as well......but someone coming to the Lexus brand for the first time, Tomb like quiet and silent is a death sentence of no sale. You can according to MT get that with the G90,but it has non existent sales numbers. Or you can’t a Benz S. The new LS is something as an alternative to the S. I do agree wind noise is not attractive.
You are perfect example of people that are not exposed to Luxury cars and just make ridiculous statements.
BMWs and MBs are whisper quiet and you never hear the engine unless you are at WOT and even then its a beautiful sound. Its completely different than if i drive my Legacy which makes coarse noises like its struggling.
The luxury car powertrains are so smooth and the interiors are so quiet that they have to pipe in engine noise even for the M and AMG cars. The noise that the performance luxury cars make are mostly from the exhaust.
I remember years ago test driving Infiniti G37 and i couldn't believe how coarse sounding that engine was, it was night and day compared to my straight 6 in BMW.
That’s great that you got to drive one at length and then drive your car right after for comparison. I am a 2 time LS owner, a 460 and a 600hL, so your comparison means a lot. I have to take my car in for an oil change in the next couple weeks so hopefully they have one there I can check out.
i assume they aren’t going to make a LWB version?
Be careful. An oil change on my 2011 ES is how I ended up in a 2016 LS460L.
Yeah I read MBWorld from time to time lol, they have a lot of the same problems we do!
I also wanted to make sure it was clear that although we have been discussing mainly my criticisms, its not that I don't like the car, I do like the car a lot and I think they did a good job moving it towards what it is they want to be without giving up all of what made the car what is in the first place. While I'm not sorry I didn't wait and got my 2017, I went into driving it thinking it would be a car that I wouldn't like, and thats just not the case. Overall if my lease were up and the LS460s were gone and the 500 was what a "new LS" was I would likely get one.
Thanks for clarifying.
There has been so much negative reaction to this car that it seems many grasped upon your criticisms to try to prove their point that this is a bad car.
BMWs and MBs are whisper quiet and you never hear the engine unless you are at WOT and even then its a beautiful sound. Its completely different than if i drive my Legacy which makes coarse noises like its struggling.
The luxury car powertrains are so smooth and the interiors are so quiet that they have to pipe in engine noise even for the M and AMG cars. The noise that the performance luxury cars make are mostly from the exhaust.
Car & Drivers claims of interior noise are below:
A Toyota Avalon is on par with BMW and Lincoln
The LS460L according to Edmunds is 62db at 70MPH. None of the auto press consider the LS460 the benchmark. The auto press is all bull*****, the LS460 is the quietest car, so Lexus amps up the feeling in the new LS500, all done on purpose.
You can't really compare the sound readings from Edmunds with those from C&D. Different testing equipment, methods, locations etc.
Agreed. I tried my best to find Car & Drivers numbers for Lexus LS460, no luck.. But at least I provided some sort evidence towards the notion that Lexus has deliberately made their cars louder. Quiet and boring does not sell in 2018.
Agreed. I tried my best to find Car & Drivers numbers for Lexus LS460, no luck.. But at least I provided some sort evidence towards the notion that Lexus has deliberately made their cars louder. Quiet and boring does not sell in 2018.
So who says quiet is boring? There are many people who appreciate a lack of noise under the hood, from the wheel-wells, or through the window-seals. From actual owner surveys, one of the keys (among several) to the popularity of the Highlander, Camry, ES, and RX (all, of course, which sell in excellent numbers) is effective noise-control.
(I'm not going to drag this thread off on yet another Buick discussion, but I will point out that quietness is also one of the reasons the Chinese love the brand so much).
Because boring with Lexus higher end cars is NOT selling. Thus the idea of a spindle grille and noise being piped into the cabin. Lexus had a perception of being boring...
Check out the list below, in theory almost anyone would assume all of these cars are quieter than a 4 banger Camry. New Camry rings it at 68db on highway at 70
In general, the LS 500 is easily a sportier and better car than the 4LS, but it depends on your preferences so really the owners who don't like their "dome of silence" being disturbed by even a ripple of pavement or a bump, some engine noise are not going to be happy. A calculated move by the company, no doubt. You lose older luxury oriented buyers and gain younger sporty buyers.
WRT the people who wanted the extra room from a longer car. It's form over function in this case and that's not new with car styling. It's the right direction for Toyota with the LS' driving performance. There are a couple of 4LS owners in my town and boy, those cars look anonymous even at the best of times. You wouldn't even know what they are unless you could get close enough to identify the car. That's fine for quiet luxury and not bragging, but when you spend big money, you sometimes want a beautiful product that looks like a big dollar roller.
My faults with the 5LS are always on the styling. If you are going to sacrifice interior space or increase decibels then it better be a heck of a looker. This car is not a looker. It's polarizing. There is a difference.
Edmunds actually tested a later LS460 and got 58 dB
I don't think anybody is arguing that they didn't intend the LS500 to be "louder" than the LS460. They certainly did, and they intended the engine note to be more present inside the cabin, exhaust note, etc. My point is that the sounds this engine makes are not particularly appealing, and the coarseness is a feel thing not really a sound thing.
Case in point drive an LC500, the V8 in the LC is considerably louder than the V6 in the LS, but it sounds way better and its much smoother and more refined. They didn't intend for the LS' TTV6 to have that coarseness its just not as well counterbalanced as it could be.
02-25-18, 07:29 AM
