SW17LS

Wouldn't surprise me either!

BippuLexus

Yeah. MB advertising and product placement are insanely good. You literally see MB in every other movie and hear "Mercedes" or "Benz" in every other song. A good example is: MB G-Wagon. I think its a ugly and stupid *** car but for some reason - the G-Wagon is a status symbol in the LA area. You get a G-Wagon to have a G-Wagon...
This is why MB has this prestige that carries their sales numbers up and makes them also immune to hate as well. You rarely see people hate on MB because its a Benz.

I expected better from CnD because they should know better in this quote. The LS F-Sport is an appearance package like MB's AMG Line or BMW' M Sport Design Pack - it holds no performance upgrades. CnD is making it sound like the LS500 F-Sport was suppose to be insanely fast because "F-Sport." Its like CnD assumed the LS500 F-Sport was a LS-F...

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

This quote says it all and mirrors what I said about the LS500 in my own review. Honestly the LS500 F-Sport version, in both exterior appearance and interior (ugh those seats) would be better suited in/on/as a GS500. The LS500 IMHO needs to at the bare minimum have the interior upgrade package which nets the Quilted-stitch perforated semi-aniline leather and choice of Art Wood Herringbone, Gray Sapele Wood and Aluminum, or Shimamoku Espresso Wood trims. The Art Wood Herringbone is my personal favorite.

BippuLexus

I personally would rather have Lexus LS not offer a F-Sport for it. The Lexus LS is a better car in its non F-Sport state and agreed - they should have just put it on a GS.

I hope Lexus removes the F-Sport LS500 and adds a LS-F.

peteharvey

Sales targets are only to "save face".
Even Akio knows that 5LS has not had a good start; I'm not sure if discounting will help much.

The 4LS was first on sale mid-2006, and since then, they have had up to 12 years to develop 5LS.
All that time, and all that development money - hate to see that go to waste - and then pointless coming up with excuses after excuses...

BippuLexus

I don't think Akio really cares about the LS sales numbers. The LS was never the cash-grabber for Toyota. Toyota are using the ES, NX, and RX to rack up cash.

If you really look into it, the Lexus LS500 is priced/stacked perfectly to compete against the 740i and S450. The Lexus LS with all the bell and whistles come a cheaper price, more luxury and better performance than the 740i and S450. The Lexus LS is definitely a better car than the 740i and S450 but not a better badge - that's the problem. MB/BMW enjoy this prestige that makes them get away with murder even if their products are meh.

SW17LS

LOL, says who? I own a business and I have sales targets, my sales targets are not to be anywhere near "#1". My sales targets are not to "save face".

Again, says who?

You say its gone to waste yet you have never even driven the car? Its a great car!

peteharvey

Excuses after excuses.
The 5LS may go down as the slowest selling generation of LS on debut, relative to the S Class.

mmarshall

See, to me, that means little if anything. Why should someone spend M-B kind of cash on a new vehicle, just because the directors in Hollywood push it in their big-money films? IMO, anyone with half a brain can see right through that kind of stuff. Vehicles should sell on their merit, not because of entertainers pushing them. I don't buy Buicks just because pro athletes have been pushing them lately in ads. I bought a Lacrosse, for example, because I liked the way it drove. A film isn't going to tell you that...you have to actually go and test-drive the vehicle yourself.

BippuLexus

Yeah. But the average consumer has less than half of a brain. Lol. Joking but serious at the same time.

You have to understand - if something is pushed often enough and reproduced often enough, it'll become a bias within people's heads. This is why racist stereotypes exist - because its been pushed through generations of racism.
The fact is - if a rapper or an actor always pushes a Mercedes or a BMW, people who aren't car enthusiast and who aren't "into" cars will likely start to believe such brand is a good car. IE: "Hey. Drake likes Mercedes - it must be good." "Drake drives a Mercedes - I want to be like Drake and buy one too." etc...

Here's a good example - Aston Martin. People who don't know anything about cars will likely think the Aston Martin is cool because it was in James Bond. People will know that's the "James Bonds car" - this gives it a such prestige. This also happens for MB and BMW because they have insane good marketing.

Last point - of course, we as car enthusiasts, know better and would buy what's "good" and not what's "told to be good". But for the average joe/jane that isn't the case. I mean - these average consumers test drove cars all the time but they probably don't know what they are looking for during the test drive. That or either the already made up their mind about the brand and just want the brand.

SW17LS

No might, it will. Lexus said it would before it ever launched.

Sulu

What?!?!?

I am not a business person yet even I know that sales targets are an extremely important part of a business plan. Without sales targets, how will you know if you can go into and stay in business?

If I sell X number of units at $Y price, can I cover pay my employees and pay myself, and start to pay down my design costs, my production costs, etc.? How long will I have to keep selling before I fully pay down my design and production costs, and start to make a profit? Can I afford to sell this product?

SW17LS

He doesn't understand that success is not a zero sum game. Not everybody's goal is to be "#1" at anything. I run a very successful business, and "being #1" has never been a part of any of our business plans. Hell, being "#500" has never even been a part of any of our plans. I don't even look to my competitors to plan my business.

Lexus said a long time ago that being #1 was no longer their goal, and that they recognized that the styling and dynamic changes to their cars would cost them sales in some situations. Well, things are turning out exactly as they said that they would.

peteharvey

Unfortunately, sales targets can be set very low to save face.

For example, my 3GS achieved peak sales of 33,000+ units on debut, but by 2012, my 4GS only managed to barely reach its target of 2k/month for 22,000+ units/year.
Here, it almost managed to reach sales targets, however in truth, compared to predecessor 3GS, the successor 4GS sales fell over 30% - at a time when the 5 Series sustained its previous peak sales of 57,000+ units/year, while the E Class actually raised its peak sales to over 69,000+ units/year.

Similar situation with LS here.
The previous four generations of LS's have outsold the S Class on debut.
The current gen S Class debut with over 25,000+ sales, averaging over 2k/month.
New 5LS so far only averaging 1k/month at best.
If all new 5LS is averaging 1k/month now, you wanna guess what it will average in 5 years time???

Like I say - nearly 12 years development - so much time and effort - cast aluminium alloy strut mounts etc - for only 1k/month - when the ageing & more expensive 5 year old S Class still manages 1.5k/month sales.
Come mid-2020 [just 2 years away], and there is the all new next generation of Mercedes S Classes to contend with!!!

Akio is not stupid.
He knows.

Now, they have to be really really careful with their mid-life update 5.5LS product design...
.

mmarshall

I don't have the hard numbers to prove it, but I strongly suspect that the new LS will do better than the slow-selling LS600h did on its debut.