Lexus LS500 reviews and discussion
06-04-18, 10:01 PM
#466
Lexus Test Driver
This was at the Concours d’Elegance where multi-million dollar cars are on display.
The show is not free.
You had the following brands all displaying their cars: BMW, Tesla, Lexus, Acura, Cadillac, Jag/RR, Lincoln.
Most ppl that attend this show are car enthusiasts that have $$$ from all over the Northeast including NYC and Westchester which is 5min away. Oh BTW Bonhams had auction on site with most cars exceeding $100k. Auction included the bulk of Carroll Shelby’s personal collection.
Since you never heard of these places - Greenwich and Westchester are really expensive suburbs of NYC. Many CEOs, Hedge Fund owners, Private Equity folks reside here.
Many work in NYC and commute by MetroNorth train which takes about 1 hour to midtown.
Here are some pics:
The show is not free.
You had the following brands all displaying their cars: BMW, Tesla, Lexus, Acura, Cadillac, Jag/RR, Lincoln.
Most ppl that attend this show are car enthusiasts that have $$$ from all over the Northeast including NYC and Westchester which is 5min away. Oh BTW Bonhams had auction on site with most cars exceeding $100k. Auction included the bulk of Carroll Shelby’s personal collection.
Since you never heard of these places - Greenwich and Westchester are really expensive suburbs of NYC. Many CEOs, Hedge Fund owners, Private Equity folks reside here.
Many work in NYC and commute by MetroNorth train which takes about 1 hour to midtown.
Here are some pics:
Lexus did make a mistake here then. They should pulled in resources to make the Kiriko Glass LS happen at this show. No clue why they didn't. The only reason I can think of to give Lexus the benefit of the doubt (because we aren't their running their company) is: that they didn't produce enough Kiriko Glass models. Just being a devil's advocate.
06-05-18, 06:51 AM
#467
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Say no more. Once you said Concours d’Elegance, I react my previous statement. I didn't know you were talking about this - I thought you just went to some random thing. Lol. I didn't know Concours d’Elegance did one in Greenwich. I only know of the Pebble Beach showing because I'm a California residence.
Lexus did make a mistake here then. They should pulled in resources to make the Kiriko Glass LS happen at this show. No clue why they didn't. The only reason I can think of to give Lexus the benefit of the doubt (because we aren't their running their company) is: that they didn't produce enough Kiriko Glass models. Just being a devil's advocate.
Lexus did make a mistake here then. They should pulled in resources to make the Kiriko Glass LS happen at this show. No clue why they didn't. The only reason I can think of to give Lexus the benefit of the doubt (because we aren't their running their company) is: that they didn't produce enough Kiriko Glass models. Just being a devil's advocate.
if lexus puts on events in RICH areas, even if small populations, they should bring all their top offerings and not tell people attending they're not bringing 120K cars to the event (which is pocket change among people with bentleys, mclarens, etc).
06-05-18, 09:48 AM
#468
Lexus Test Driver
might want to research just a bit more next time before "playing devil's advocate".
holy 180. "the devil made me do it".
if lexus puts on events in RICH areas, even if small populations, they should bring all their top offerings and not tell people attending they're not bringing 120K cars to the event (which is pocket change among people with bentleys, mclarens, etc).
holy 180. "the devil made me do it".
if lexus puts on events in RICH areas, even if small populations, they should bring all their top offerings and not tell people attending they're not bringing 120K cars to the event (which is pocket change among people with bentleys, mclarens, etc).
You should scale back the passive-aggressive attitude I'm picking up by saying "the devil made me do it". Because it literally comes off as a sarcastic insult. I already admitted fault that I didn't know so I retract my statement. I further suggested I only played devil's advocate to give Lexus a benefit of the doubt. What more do you want?
06-05-18, 10:04 AM
#469
Lexus Champion
Do more research? How would I know RNM went to Concours d’Elegance when there are multiple car shows/events every year? How would "research" tell me which specific car event he went to? This is not about research - its about I just didn't know. As I stated before - I only knew of the Pebble Beach.
You should scale back the passive-aggressive attitude I'm picking up by saying "the devil made me do it". Because it literally comes off as a sarcastic insult. I already admitted fault that I didn't know so I retract my statement. I further suggested I only played devil's advocate to give Lexus a benefit of the doubt. What more do you want?
You should scale back the passive-aggressive attitude I'm picking up by saying "the devil made me do it". Because it literally comes off as a sarcastic insult. I already admitted fault that I didn't know so I retract my statement. I further suggested I only played devil's advocate to give Lexus a benefit of the doubt. What more do you want?
06-05-18, 10:30 AM
#470
Do more research? How would I know RNM went to Concours d’Elegance when there are multiple car shows/events every year? How would "research" tell me which specific car event he went to? This is not about research - its about I just didn't know. As I stated before - I only knew of the Pebble Beach.
You should scale back the passive-aggressive attitude I'm picking up by saying "the devil made me do it". Because it literally comes off as a sarcastic insult. I already admitted fault that I didn't know so I retract my statement. I further suggested I only played devil's advocate to give Lexus a benefit of the doubt. What more do you want?
You should scale back the passive-aggressive attitude I'm picking up by saying "the devil made me do it". Because it literally comes off as a sarcastic insult. I already admitted fault that I didn't know so I retract my statement. I further suggested I only played devil's advocate to give Lexus a benefit of the doubt. What more do you want?
06-05-18, 11:08 AM
#471
Lexus Test Driver
BTW Acura was offering test drives of the NSX which had msrp of $200k.
I was lucky to drive it. Nice car and actually makes some great noises which was pleasant surprise. But i can also see why at around $200k people go elsewhere. Brand name is not there and interior is horrendous especially NAV display.
The LS test drives were with a Lexus rep from marketing who were very nice.
As always with Lexus there is huge disconnect with Japanese decision makers and actual marketing that needs to be done. BTW i was not the only person to ask about the Kiriko glass. You should not put 1 car in a commercial or to Car magazines and then make that unique feature unavailable to potential buyers.....
This was my 2nd time driving the LS and it has an excellent ride and great handling.
This time i drove the Executive package non-Fsport. If you leave engine in comfort its smoother and makes no noise which was great. Sport + mode needs to be improved. The exterior styling has also grown on me especially in non-Fsport.
The interior room is still very poor imo. No reason an ES should be bigger inside for half price.
The price is the other issue. I think its a bit high, the one i drove was low $90s i believe. If it had a V8TT and normal backseat room then it would be a bargain.
I was lucky to drive it. Nice car and actually makes some great noises which was pleasant surprise. But i can also see why at around $200k people go elsewhere. Brand name is not there and interior is horrendous especially NAV display.
The LS test drives were with a Lexus rep from marketing who were very nice.
As always with Lexus there is huge disconnect with Japanese decision makers and actual marketing that needs to be done. BTW i was not the only person to ask about the Kiriko glass. You should not put 1 car in a commercial or to Car magazines and then make that unique feature unavailable to potential buyers.....
This was my 2nd time driving the LS and it has an excellent ride and great handling.
This time i drove the Executive package non-Fsport. If you leave engine in comfort its smoother and makes no noise which was great. Sport + mode needs to be improved. The exterior styling has also grown on me especially in non-Fsport.
The interior room is still very poor imo. No reason an ES should be bigger inside for half price.
The price is the other issue. I think its a bit high, the one i drove was low $90s i believe. If it had a V8TT and normal backseat room then it would be a bargain.
06-05-18, 11:13 AM
#472
Lexus Test Driver
Whether you decide to take this as hostile or not is up to you. Take a step back and look at the reactions to the posts that you are making. Clearly, there is a disconnect with the message that you think you are making and the message that other people are reading. Could it be that we're just a bunch of grouchy old people that nitpick posts? Yeah, that's true regardless, but this isn't Discord where posts get buried in a few minutes and no one ever sees them again. Think about what you post. Realize that people will dissect it. Don't post opinions about actual facts and hide behind the 'well I said IMO' because if a math test asks what 2+2 is and I write "IMO it's 5" guess what? I'm still wrong even if that's my opinion
Secondly - don't post opinions about actual facts? I wasn't posting opinions and labeling them as facts. I wasn't claiming to know information. I clearly stated Devil's Advocate. I was strictly posting my opinions on the topic. So because its not the "popular" opinion - its considered me as making up facts as opinions? RNM never once insulted my opinion - he gave his opinion and changed my train of though. So in turn - I admit my mistake and corrected myself.
This is the point of the forum - to discuss opinions - whether it be right or wrong. Then come to a conclusion based on what you think.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 06-05-18 at 11:19 AM.
06-05-18, 11:44 AM
#474
Lexus Test Driver
I have done the research on Greenwich. It was an affluent town with a small population. I brushed it off because it was a small city (under 70K people) and didn't know the Concours d’Elegance was held there either. How am I suppose to know CEOs and Hedge Fund workers live there? How did I know RNM went to the Concours d’Elegance?
With what information I had, I formed an opinion - a wrong opinion - I admit. But I didn't know that at the time. But RNM, who knew more about it than I do, told his opinion. This lead me to change my mind. I admitted fault and retracted my statement.
This goes back to what I was saying - the the forums is an open space for people to share ideas and opinions so individual can learn from them. What you are suggesting is what the opposite a forum should be.
I learned from mistake and gain some knowledge. So I'm happy. I'm not sure what you are trying to succeed by keep railing me on this. Did I refuse to admit fault? Did I insult you?
06-05-18, 12:03 PM
#475
This will be my last post on the topic because it doesn't seem to be getting through. But you have 4-5 generally reasonable members of this board who are getting frustrated with your posting style, perhaps the issue is with you and not with them
06-05-18, 12:13 PM
#476
Lexus Test Driver
What do you think this sounds like?
This will be my last post on the topic because it doesn't seem to be getting through. But you have 4-5 generally reasonable members of this board who are getting frustrated with your posting style, perhaps the issue is with you and not with them
This will be my last post on the topic because it doesn't seem to be getting through. But you have 4-5 generally reasonable members of this board who are getting frustrated with your posting style, perhaps the issue is with you and not with them
Why can't everyone just do what RNM did? Clearly explain and show me that I was wrong.
I wasn't implying anyone spoon feed me anything. If you don't have an open discussion - how can people learn? If RNM didn't post what he did, I would still be ignorant about this.
Its an open forum - no? I'm not insulting anyone. I'm not trying to pick fights. I'm following guidelines. I'm literally posting an opinion, which I thought was good at the time. I admitted my mistake and retracted my statement.
But yet, it seems like you are trying to pick a fight with me. Trying to get me to slip. Yeah - apparently its not getting through because you passively insulted me by calling me a wall before, right?
06-05-18, 01:39 PM
#477
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Bippu et al, Take it to PM and get this back on topic
06-05-18, 03:49 PM
#478
Interesting that this thread Pages 29 to 32 steered off-topic towards the forthcoming 7ES' seats etc - we've literally declared the forthcoming 7ES a sales success & winner, even though we haven't test driven it yet!
That's the marque of a great product.
On the otherhand, back on topic, posters are trying very very hard to praise & like the all new 5LS.
Most posts praising the 5LS was of a "conciliatory" nature.
What has happened?
This is my 2 cents.
Carl Benz & Gottlieb Daimler passed away a long time ago, but their legacy continues.
On the one hand, they build the best car in the world, yet on the other hand, Mercedes has motor sport victories.
Similarly, Dr Ferdinand Porsche, Enzo Ferrari and the Maserati racing brothers have all passed away - but their legacy continues.
In building Maserati sports sedans, Porsche sports coupes, and even more serious Ferrari sports cars.
NB. Unlike Benz who build mostly luxury sedans, low volume niche sports cars never make financial sense, hence Porsche & Lamborghini are both part of VW AG, while Maserati & Ferrari is own by Fiat Chrysler Auto.
Back in 1983, the then late Toyota chairman Mr Eiji Toyoda challenged his team to build the best car in the world in the LS400.
However, unlike the Europeans, it seems that Eiji Toyoda's legacy has been discontinued?
In comes the new "no more boring cars" concept.
At a period when 5 Series maintained their peak sales at 57,000+ units, while E Class increased its peak sales from 58,000+ units to a whopping 69,000+ units, 4GS sales fell by over 30% from 3GS's peak of 33,457 to 4GS's peak sales of just 23,000+ units, albeit below the monthly target of 2,000 units/month too.
Likewise, the all new "no more boring cars" 5LS sold only 908 units in May - in itself below monthly target - and by far a record low debut for an LS.
Traditionally, LS's have always outsold the more expensive S Class, and the current S Class debut with an average of over 2,000 units per month.
The 7ES formula for success is so different from the 5LS's formula for success.
The 7ES is running on sheep in wolf's clothing cheap FWD-based, with cheap single lower link MacPherson strut front suspension - and already very much declared a sales success - when it hasn't even been released nor test driven.
The 5LS has a serious front mid-engine configuration to maximize handling, at the expense of a cramped interior - with posters trying very very very hard to like this car.
Look at Mercedes.
On the one hand, they aim to build the best saloon in the world.
Yet on the other hand, Mercedes has a record of motor sport victories.
Notice how Mercedes does NOT blanket their range with sports features that compromize their design?
With the no more boring cars concept, trying to make every model across the range sporty - is perhaps the wrong thing to do.
It should be horses for courses, and a mixture of spacious comfortable luxury sedans [especially at the top end of the market where the buyers are generally older], combined with sports coupes like RC & LC, together with limited run sports cars like the LFA.
[Sure there are young successful entrepreneurs like Mark Zuckerberg, but most successful people are older].
IMO, Akio must go back to the drawing board, and redevelop his principles to get the future 6LS back on track.
I think the 5LS's low center of gravity is enough, and I wouldn't advise on another front mid-engine which compromizes cabin length.
Better styling similar to the 7ES amongst its peers is paramount.
Consumers shouldn't have to force themselves to like a car.
It should be a natural & spontaneous signing on the dotted line with genuine sales success just like the forthcoming 7ES - the latter which has already been declared a sales success, even though it hasn't even been released, let alone test driven by GStar...
.
That's the marque of a great product.
On the otherhand, back on topic, posters are trying very very hard to praise & like the all new 5LS.
Most posts praising the 5LS was of a "conciliatory" nature.
What has happened?
This is my 2 cents.
Carl Benz & Gottlieb Daimler passed away a long time ago, but their legacy continues.
On the one hand, they build the best car in the world, yet on the other hand, Mercedes has motor sport victories.
Similarly, Dr Ferdinand Porsche, Enzo Ferrari and the Maserati racing brothers have all passed away - but their legacy continues.
In building Maserati sports sedans, Porsche sports coupes, and even more serious Ferrari sports cars.
NB. Unlike Benz who build mostly luxury sedans, low volume niche sports cars never make financial sense, hence Porsche & Lamborghini are both part of VW AG, while Maserati & Ferrari is own by Fiat Chrysler Auto.
Back in 1983, the then late Toyota chairman Mr Eiji Toyoda challenged his team to build the best car in the world in the LS400.
However, unlike the Europeans, it seems that Eiji Toyoda's legacy has been discontinued?
In comes the new "no more boring cars" concept.
At a period when 5 Series maintained their peak sales at 57,000+ units, while E Class increased its peak sales from 58,000+ units to a whopping 69,000+ units, 4GS sales fell by over 30% from 3GS's peak of 33,457 to 4GS's peak sales of just 23,000+ units, albeit below the monthly target of 2,000 units/month too.
Likewise, the all new "no more boring cars" 5LS sold only 908 units in May - in itself below monthly target - and by far a record low debut for an LS.
Traditionally, LS's have always outsold the more expensive S Class, and the current S Class debut with an average of over 2,000 units per month.
The 7ES formula for success is so different from the 5LS's formula for success.
The 7ES is running on sheep in wolf's clothing cheap FWD-based, with cheap single lower link MacPherson strut front suspension - and already very much declared a sales success - when it hasn't even been released nor test driven.
The 5LS has a serious front mid-engine configuration to maximize handling, at the expense of a cramped interior - with posters trying very very very hard to like this car.
Look at Mercedes.
On the one hand, they aim to build the best saloon in the world.
Yet on the other hand, Mercedes has a record of motor sport victories.
Notice how Mercedes does NOT blanket their range with sports features that compromize their design?
With the no more boring cars concept, trying to make every model across the range sporty - is perhaps the wrong thing to do.
It should be horses for courses, and a mixture of spacious comfortable luxury sedans [especially at the top end of the market where the buyers are generally older], combined with sports coupes like RC & LC, together with limited run sports cars like the LFA.
[Sure there are young successful entrepreneurs like Mark Zuckerberg, but most successful people are older].
IMO, Akio must go back to the drawing board, and redevelop his principles to get the future 6LS back on track.
I think the 5LS's low center of gravity is enough, and I wouldn't advise on another front mid-engine which compromizes cabin length.
Better styling similar to the 7ES amongst its peers is paramount.
Consumers shouldn't have to force themselves to like a car.
It should be a natural & spontaneous signing on the dotted line with genuine sales success just like the forthcoming 7ES - the latter which has already been declared a sales success, even though it hasn't even been released, let alone test driven by GStar...
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-05-18 at 07:37 PM.
06-05-18, 04:13 PM
#479
Lexus Test Driver
With the no more boring cars concept, trying to make every model across the range sporty - is perhaps the wrong thing to do.
It should be horses for courses, and a mixture of spacious comfortable luxury sedans [especially at the top end of the market where the buyers are generally older], combined with sports coupes like RC & LC, together with limited run sports cars like the LFA.
It should be horses for courses, and a mixture of spacious comfortable luxury sedans [especially at the top end of the market where the buyers are generally older], combined with sports coupes like RC & LC, together with limited run sports cars like the LFA.
The "no more boring cars" from Toyota idea was taken too far. Toyota didn't need to give everything a "sporty" design or "sporty" edge. It would be better serve to pull resources together and offer a mix batch of cars, like you have said.
I personally feel the Lexus LS and their SUV vehicles don't really need a "F-Sport" package. As much as I like the LS500, I would have preferred Lexus to not offer a F-Sport Pack on the LS. A LS-F would be well-accepted though.
06-05-18, 04:42 PM
#480
Lexus Champion
They’ve had an F Sport package on the LS for years. A new LS wasn’t going to change that.