Lexus LS500 reviews and discussion
06-07-18, 07:32 AM
#496
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
...
Theoretically, a 5LS sales recovery is possible
, however from a very low base of only 908 units in its third month, I doubt 5LS will all of a sudden make it to 2,000+ units/month like the current S Class for a total of nearly 25,000 units in the S Class' first full year.
Historically, sales of LS and S Classes have never been at a low of say 900, and then all of a sudden recovered to 2,000+ units/month.
...
Theoretically, a 5LS sales recovery is possible
, however from a very low base of only 908 units in its third month, I doubt 5LS will all of a sudden make it to 2,000+ units/month like the current S Class for a total of nearly 25,000 units in the S Class' first full year.Historically, sales of LS and S Classes have never been at a low of say 900, and then all of a sudden recovered to 2,000+ units/month.
...
06-07-18, 08:54 AM
#497
Having had both the AWD and RWD LS460 there is a notable difference in feel of power delivery between the two. The RWD will have the power rush you’re looking for.
Again, commenting on the feel of driving a car and the feel of an engine you’ve never driven. If we were talking about an IS200t, a GS350 or a Camry that might have value, but we aren’t and it doesn’t.
Again, commenting on the feel of driving a car and the feel of an engine you’ve never driven. If we were talking about an IS200t, a GS350 or a Camry that might have value, but we aren’t and it doesn’t.
06-08-18, 04:49 PM
#499
Steve, please stay on topic.
It's about a car, and not about a person.
It's strange but when I drive my family's LS460 AWD, a 2017 model, I dont sense the "immediate rush of torque" that you spoke of. Perhaps the speed is deceptive, but the response is more tepid than I expected, though it is a little better in Sport Mode. It does have gradual build up of power and speed, but certainly nothing super immediate.
Engine tuning is a compromise.
The more we have of one feature, the less we have of the other.
Hence, the more top end torque, the less the bottom end torque.
If the Lexus 4.6L V8 was designed with a combination of narrower bore & longer stroke, fewer valves, smaller valve diameters, smaller valve lift [for higher swirl velocity], less advanced valve opening timing, and narrower but longer inlet tract manifolds - then the Lexus 4.6L V8 would have much more immediate bottom end torque - but it would also have less top end maximum torque, and hence less top end maximum power.
Nissan variable compression engines, variable valve timing, variable valve lift, and dual tract inlet manifolds per cylinder [with both narrow long & wide short inlet tracts] - try to overcome the compromise, but still - the compromise is there.
Internal combustion engines ICE's are both complex and inefficient.
EV is the future, because electric motors have a flat torque curve - it's just the way electricity & magnets work.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-08-18 at 10:00 PM.
06-08-18, 05:09 PM
#500
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Pete, you either need to answer the question about having driven one or SW needs to stop asking about it, or both.
Let’s go with both and end the tiring, repetitive back and forth on this topic please.
The assumption everyone will make until you (Pete) are clear about it is that you have never driven a LS460 or LS500.
Let’s go with both and end the tiring, repetitive back and forth on this topic please.
The assumption everyone will make until you (Pete) are clear about it is that you have never driven a LS460 or LS500.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 06-08-18 at 05:13 PM.
06-08-18, 05:24 PM
#501
I have driven an LS460.
PS.
About 6 to 8 weeks ago, I was offered to look at & test drive the LS500, but busy lately, so I haven't got around to it yet.
Nevermind, because the 7ES hasn't even been released, yet 7ES gets very positive posts.
.
PS.
About 6 to 8 weeks ago, I was offered to look at & test drive the LS500, but busy lately, so I haven't got around to it yet.
Nevermind, because the 7ES hasn't even been released, yet 7ES gets very positive posts.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 06-08-18 at 09:23 PM.
06-09-18, 10:43 AM
#504
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
looks great in that photo, but yeah, if you step on it with the hybrid it sounds like a honda lawnmower.
06-10-18, 04:57 AM
#506
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Peteharvey, please also exit. No need to edit and add that final argumentative comment.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 06-10-18 at 05:02 AM.
06-10-18, 07:36 AM
#507
drives cars
The review by AutoTopNL was nice. The LS is a really unique car in the segment - if it were my money, I doubt I would get the hybrid though. CVT "shifts" are not my fave.
06-10-18, 02:41 PM
#508
Lexus Test Driver
The Lexus 4.6L V8 doesn't have that immediate bottom end torque, because the bore/stroke ratios, valve numbers/size/timing/lift, and the intake/exhaust manifolds lengths have been "tuned" to produce maximum top end torque to achieve maximum top end power - rather than immediate bottom end torque.
Engine tuning is a compromise.
The more we have of one feature, the less we have of the other.
Hence, the more top end torque, the less the bottom end torque.
If the Lexus 4.6L V8 was designed with a combination of narrower bore & longer stroke, fewer valves, smaller valve diameters, smaller valve lift [for higher swirl velocity], less advanced valve opening timing, and narrower but longer inlet tract manifolds - then the Lexus 4.6L V8 would have much more immediate bottom end torque - but it would also have less top end maximum torque, and hence less top end maximum power.
Engine tuning is a compromise.
The more we have of one feature, the less we have of the other.
Hence, the more top end torque, the less the bottom end torque.
If the Lexus 4.6L V8 was designed with a combination of narrower bore & longer stroke, fewer valves, smaller valve diameters, smaller valve lift [for higher swirl velocity], less advanced valve opening timing, and narrower but longer inlet tract manifolds - then the Lexus 4.6L V8 would have much more immediate bottom end torque - but it would also have less top end maximum torque, and hence less top end maximum power.
http://www.mr2.com/files/mr2/techinf...e98LS1uz-1.pdf
http://www.mr2.com/files/mr2/techinf...e98LS1uz-2.pdf
all i really meant by any of this is that with the older V8 cars, when you're just slowly going around at like parking lot speeds, if you sharply step on the gas it'll change its momentum very quickly and briefly jerk your head back. the new engine doesn't have that same response. it doesn't do any head jerking, power is delivered very gradually with no abruptness whatsoever. the V8 delivers more immediate torque from idle but then the turbo V6 will of course eventually surpass it once the turbos get going. the older cars feel like the engine is more directly connected to your foot is i guess my point.
for anyone looking for a sustained "rush" of low end torque, i'd recommend a tesla or a vehicle that uses the mercedes supercharged M113 series engine. i can't afford a tesla lol... so i chose the latter. well idk if i'll get a response now since i see pete's been asked to leave...
06-11-18, 08:20 AM
#509
Pole Position
not denying any of this, actually never mind what exactly do you mean by fewer valves? the LS in 1989 had 32 valves and so does the 2017, and (someone tell me if i'm wrong) doesn't longer stroke equal more low end torque? i know one main difference between the 1UZ and 2UZ is a longer stroke in the 2UZ since it's for trucks and large SUVs so they wanted more low end torque. and as far as i remember longer intake tracts also make more low end torque:
http://www.mr2.com/files/mr2/techinf...e98LS1uz-1.pdf
http://www.mr2.com/files/mr2/techinf...e98LS1uz-2.pdf
all i really meant by any of this is that with the older V8 cars, when you're just slowly going around at like parking lot speeds, if you sharply step on the gas it'll change its momentum very quickly and briefly jerk your head back. the new engine doesn't have that same response. it doesn't do any head jerking, power is delivered very gradually with no abruptness whatsoever. the V8 delivers more immediate torque from idle but then the turbo V6 will of course eventually surpass it once the turbos get going. the older cars feel like the engine is more directly connected to your foot is i guess my point.
for anyone looking for a sustained "rush" of low end torque, i'd recommend a tesla or a vehicle that uses the mercedes supercharged M113 series engine. i can't afford a tesla lol... so i chose the latter. well idk if i'll get a response now since i see pete's been asked to leave...
http://www.mr2.com/files/mr2/techinf...e98LS1uz-1.pdf
http://www.mr2.com/files/mr2/techinf...e98LS1uz-2.pdf
all i really meant by any of this is that with the older V8 cars, when you're just slowly going around at like parking lot speeds, if you sharply step on the gas it'll change its momentum very quickly and briefly jerk your head back. the new engine doesn't have that same response. it doesn't do any head jerking, power is delivered very gradually with no abruptness whatsoever. the V8 delivers more immediate torque from idle but then the turbo V6 will of course eventually surpass it once the turbos get going. the older cars feel like the engine is more directly connected to your foot is i guess my point.
for anyone looking for a sustained "rush" of low end torque, i'd recommend a tesla or a vehicle that uses the mercedes supercharged M113 series engine. i can't afford a tesla lol... so i chose the latter. well idk if i'll get a response now since i see pete's been asked to leave...
And then "the turbo v6...will surpass it once the turbos get going"? Most modern day luxury turbos are extremely efficient and build boost almost immediately from very low (1500-2500) RPMs. The premise that it will lag significantly isn't as applicable today as it once was.
I have 2 cars simultaneously that had very similar specs: FX50s w/ 400hp 5.0L V8, 7 speed auto, 4200lbs (AWD) and a Q50RS w/ 400hp 3.0L V6TT, 7 speed auto, 4000lbs (AWD). The V6TT feels a lot smoother, more linear in response and propels you quickly all the way to redline from 2k rpms. The V8 does feel as responsive down low, but lacks mid-range punch comparitively where most cruising, traffic occurs. The biggest deciding factor between the two in low end feel was what gear the transmission was in, otherwise they're entirely comparable.
06-12-18, 11:22 AM
#510
Lexus Test Driver
im sorry, but I had to weigh in on this topic. "Sustained rush of low end torque" sounds extremely oxymoronic. So you feel a push for 1 second, and then it's gone?
And then "the turbo v6...will surpass it once the turbos get going"? Most modern day luxury turbos are extremely efficient and build boost almost immediately from very low (1500-2500) RPMs. The premise that it will lag significantly isn't as applicable today as it once was.
I have 2 cars simultaneously that had very similar specs: FX50s w/ 400hp 5.0L V8, 7 speed auto, 4200lbs (AWD) and a Q50RS w/ 400hp 3.0L V6TT, 7 speed auto, 4000lbs (AWD). The V6TT feels a lot smoother, more linear in response and propels you quickly all the way to redline from 2k rpms. The V8 does feel as responsive down low, but lacks mid-range punch comparitively where most cruising, traffic occurs. The biggest deciding factor between the two in low end feel was what gear the transmission was in, otherwise they're entirely comparable.
And then "the turbo v6...will surpass it once the turbos get going"? Most modern day luxury turbos are extremely efficient and build boost almost immediately from very low (1500-2500) RPMs. The premise that it will lag significantly isn't as applicable today as it once was.
I have 2 cars simultaneously that had very similar specs: FX50s w/ 400hp 5.0L V8, 7 speed auto, 4200lbs (AWD) and a Q50RS w/ 400hp 3.0L V6TT, 7 speed auto, 4000lbs (AWD). The V6TT feels a lot smoother, more linear in response and propels you quickly all the way to redline from 2k rpms. The V8 does feel as responsive down low, but lacks mid-range punch comparitively where most cruising, traffic occurs. The biggest deciding factor between the two in low end feel was what gear the transmission was in, otherwise they're entirely comparable.
i'm happy you brought up the nissan engines, since i very recently drove my friends's Q50 AWD with the 300hp version of the V6TT. engine builds power quite quickly and just kind of maintains that as it revs up. the old 3.7 V6 had this lovely high rpm pull and just seemed happy to keep revving, and ultimately even makes more power. i'm not against turbos by any means, i just like when a turbo is used to take something already not slow and make it really fast, rather than starting with something slow and using a turbo to make it adequate.